1st bow effort - too heavy - what to do?

[ThomasJ2352]

Greetings to all..got my daughter a recurve for Christmas and was looking around for one for me cuz I want to play too...being somewhat
cheap I thought about making my own longbow..."after all - how hard could it be" (the most uttered words just before disaster). So I started
a red oak bow effort, following Sams tutorial at Poor Folks Bows, got it tillered earlier today, shot a number of arrows a bit later out the back
 and decided to get an idea on what the pull force was as it seemed quite high...much higher than what I would be comfortable with on a
day at the range/course...with help from the son to hold the bow whilst I pull down with him on the scales the force came out to be well
above 70#    So with orbital sander and 60 grit in hand went to work thinning the belly...got it down to 65#, still way too high...I'm looking
for around 40-45. In the later pulling attempts it looks like its just started to splinter towards one end a bit but the fiberglass tape held it
 nicely. I have since wrapped/glued more tape around the offending area to ensure I can still use it.
My question, after a long winded intro, in order to get it down to somewhere in the low-mid 40's should I continue to make the limbs thinner
or reduce the widths? I have the widths at 1.5" from the riser out 16" before tapering down to 1/2" at the tip, the total length is 74". I could taper to the 1/2" tip right from the riser and that might work...
Any thoughts?
Thanks'
Tom

[ScottN]

What is the thickness of the red oak board?

How is the current tiller?

Are you checking/fixing the tiller after going at the belly with the sander? You could be creating a hinge/flat spot in the wood doing that- this could be a reason for it splintering.

Personally, if it has already splintered, I would stop messing with it and start working on a new one. Use this bow as a reference point for the thickness of future projects   

[lostarrow]

70# at what draw length? This is important. Never checked out the poor boy site but it sounds like it may be missing a great deal of info. Making a bow doesn't need to be complicated but you do need to start with the right info from the start.Check out the build alongs etc. on this site . Lots of great info. 

[kevinsmith5]

Sam Harper's build along is ok, but you have to watch out for the vaggaries of wood. An especially dense piece of red oak can easily produce a higher draw weight as a less dense board at the same thickness. I will say that neither Sam Harper nor I would recommend sanding a bow to lower draw. A scraper would be a better choice. Before I got a true bow scraper I used a heavy duty cabinet scraper.

I will say Sam's advice to use dry wall tape is a bad idea. Linen would be cheaperand use less glue, which lowers weight and increases speed.

[ThomasJ2352]

Thanks for the quick replies....a couple comments to add:
1)  I started out with a 1"x5"x7' board with very straight/tight grain (I thought this was the goal)...the thickness is somewhere around 13/16"
2)  Guess I need to breakdown and buy a scraper...I used a table saw to rip it lengthwise and to cut the profile and belly outline (nothing like the wrong tools)
3)  I have heard other guys use linen...that must be some type of special material...not what bed sheets are made of...so the wife hopes!
4)  The 70# was very rough, just wanted to see where it might be...the 65# was a more accurate measure...both were done at 28"
5)  I will go over the build-alongs on this site thoroughly now...

Thanks again for your helpful comments...greatly appreciated.
Tom

[lostarrow]

The linen is exactly what the bedsheets are made of (sorry wife) There are different grades of coarse. You could use sandpaper  with the right technique and set up, it's just not the fastest ,cleanest most effective way to go about it. Scrapers are a great part of the tool kit. Cheap and efficient once you learn how to use and sharpen them. Rasps , files, spokeshave, draw knives,  hatchets,.... everyone developes their own biases based on what tools they find are most effective for them. Get some good ones (antique stores are your best bet for price and quality) and try them all.I believe "Bubby"  recently picked up the gauntlet and posted a easy starter bow from a board. Sounds like you should have enough left over from your original purchase to make a couple more. This is a great forum for answering any questions you have. Responses are quick and from a great knowledge base. Go slow and if you run into a stumbling block ,post some pics with your question. This always helps. Good luck!

[ThomasJ2352]

Thanks for the info...need to  get some tools for sure....here are a few pics of the effort...one pic is pre-tiller, another is post-tiller and one at near full draw

[Weylin]

The tiller looks pretty good from what I can see. My advice is to pick a specific draw weight that you want, lets say 45#. find out how far your bow draws at 45# and re check the tiller for good measure. Then start taking long even strokes off of the limbs going the full length from fades to tips doing the same number on both limbs, counting as you go. Do maybe 40ish scrapes on each limb and then recheck the tiller and the weight. If you notice any stiff spots or weak spots fix those right away before you go any further. Repeat that process until your bow is pulling 45# at 28".

[kevinsmith5]

Sam's build uses a Surform rasp and a scraper. No band saw or table saw. Until I "inherited" dad's ShopSmith with bandsaw that's all I used. $25 in tools.

[kevinsmith5]

Your bed sheets are probably NOT linen. More likely cotton. Cottonwood has way more stretch and is not as strong as linen. Go to a fabric store and ask for linen. I buy two yards at a time so a single strip is 72". You can buy in smaller amounts and overlap at the handle area.

[ThomasJ2352]

Any suggestions as to what scraper to get? I have something like the surform rasp gizmo, though it could probably use a new blade...I see no mention of planes...
are they not used?

[bow101]

Whoa.........70# you must be a Wrestler....lol

[Weylin]

I recommend a Bahco card scraper. The kind that you roll the edge to create a burr. It takes a little practice to put a nice burr on but once you have it they are great and will last a long time. They look like this. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=aDKlfMQ0zP7EhM:&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/Bahco-Scraper-2-1-02/dp/B001M7YZWY&docid=S_8GblhAK_g_KM&imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3150ryC1iFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&w=300&h=300&ei=IrfjUMKNHebOiwKP_4GYAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=960&vpy=118&dur=428&hovh=136&hovw=136&tx=128&ty=135&sig=117280340708022132692&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=136&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0,i:103

Your local woodworking store should have them.

[Jodocus]

You need very little tools. A drawknife (or a hatchet if you have no good vice), a good rasp and a scraper do for 95% of the work. You hardly ever use a plane, cause there are hardly any planes to make, everythings bendy  . You can make good use of a spokeshave with some woods, but you really don't need it.
I too found the rasp I use all the time in a thrift shop, nice old handmade thing. Someone had bought it 150 Years ago and then it hung unused in who knows how many workshops and then I got it for 2 bucks, and now it has it's time for sure 

The tiller on your bow looks alright, as said, scrape it down some or use the rasp (don't go wild) and don't pull it to 70# anymore.

BUT WATCH OUT!!
it's addictive 

[lostarrow]

Your right Kevin, most sheets will be made from cotton. If  they are made from linen though, it's the same as what you use to back a bow. As far as the reducing by scraping, (depending on a lot of variables) about 10-12 scrapes on each limb can reduce the weight by as much as 2-1/2 lbs. Thats what I found on my last red oak  with 1-1/2" wide (at fades) limbs.Titebond II or III and linen is a quick and easy backing if you choose that route. No clamping req., inexpensive , very little skill needed, good results on your first go at it.  On board bows ,I always use a handplane to clean up the bandsaw marks . If you have a straight taper, there's nothing better,as it doesnt follow any dips or ridges.