pyramid bows

[UserNameTaken]

Hey, I'm about to go look at some black locust that I found on Craigslist, and I'm thinking that I'd like to try a pyramid design. But, it looks like these are mostly small diameter logs, and I know that pyramid bows are supposed to have a uniform thickness. Is high crown a problem?

[blackhawk]

Short answer....nope. but a pyramid might not be the best design pending on how much width the staves are. A pyramid isn't gonna fair well with sapling diameter wood....usually better for D bows...but you haven't seen the wood yet,so why not wait to see it first then ask questions.

[UserNameTaken]

...but you haven't seen the wood yet,so why not wait to see it first then ask questions.

Blackhawk, I guess I'm just weird. I thought that information might be useful even if it doesn't apply to the chunk of wood that I just brought home. I'll be sure to think twice before I ask questions from now on.

[burchett.donald]

  UserNameTaken,
                              There was nothing wrong with asking that question. That's one of the main reasons for this forum. Always feel free to do so.

[Hrothgar]

UserNameTaken,
You can always try to de-crown a smaller diameter stave, but locust might not be the best choice for a flat pyramid bow-white woods and junipers tend to fare better.

[crooketarrow]

  The onlt time any difference in small ans big logs is the crown. BL high crown and pyramid design will work as long as you don't go higher weight bows say 65# and up. Then you'll have deal with excess string follow with BL. It seams after the weight increase's pass 65,70#'s the compression starts breaking down. Keep the belly flat to help with this with BL. 

[DLH]

Hate to hijack your thread but what is the back ground of a pyramid bow which people of the past made them? Also were they usually stiff handle or more of a bend in the handle design?

[UserNameTaken]

Thanks for the help everybody; I appreciate it. As it turns out, I ended up with two 8" logs and one 18" log. Paid $20 for the big log & $7 for the little ones, so I think I did alright. They all split real straight, and they're mostly clear. Just the occasional pin knot.

So, what would you guys do with this stuff? I've never used black locust before. Is 70# about the limit for black locust in general?

[Josh B]

Nice score!  I've only made a few with black locust and the strongest was only 60 lbs. However, I know druid has posted some black locust warbows.  Some of them approaching twice the 70# mark.  If you design and tiller correctly, I would suspect the draw weight limits of black locust would far surpass human strength limits.  Josh

[DarkSoul]

True, heavy warbows have been made with black locust, exceeding 120 pounds. It probably isn't the best candidate for a heavy warbow, but it's limit certainly isn't 70 pounds.

That particular stave seems to have a bit much earlywood. Ideally, you would want as little earlywood as possible. But it will make a sweet bow, and the stave might even be wide enough for two bows.

[blackhawk]

Id make a pyramid with that if that's what you so desired. If looking for 50@28 id make it 66-68" long and start your fade width at 2" and straight taper to 1/2" tips. Just keep your belly flat.

[UserNameTaken]

Josh, yeah I was just looking at some of Druid's bows on the bow reference library that Jorad put together. One of his locust bows is supposed to be 125#.

Darksoul, saw your black locust bow on there also. Very nice. I was thinking that I could bandsaw that stave and maybe get 3 bows out of it. two from the outside and one from the inside.

DLH, I think the pyramid design has been pretty well distributed throughout the world (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). The west coast N. American tribes used the pyramid design in their short, bend in the handle bows. There are also plenty of stiff handled pyramids out there.

[crooketarrow]

  DARKSOUL
  You can't make and won't see heavy bows from BL (war bows) with pyramid designed bows. I did'nt say it that 70# was the limit. But with pramid design after 65 to 70# you'll have excess set and string follow. At least for me it's to much to be exseptable. To others it maybe exseptable
  USER
 DRUID'S bows ar'nt pyamid bows.
 That was more than a fair price. If there still green I'd cut them down to simi bow fourm and add reflex now.After they season they'll be ready.
  I've only make stiff handle bows anymore but when I di Imake quite a few in the low 50's out of BL but have made lots of stiff handle 58 to 64 inch bow 45 to 60 pounds for people. BL is a cousin to OSAGE.

[DarkSoul]

I don't see why black locust would make a 100# English longbow, nut not a 100# flatbow. If you're getting more set with a flatbow in that weight range than with a longbow, there must be something wrong in your design. The tiller could be off, for instance. Or, what I think is more likely, the flatbow is not long enough. It's pretty futile to try a 120#@28" flatbow out of a 64" stiff handles bow. The bow must be longer to accommodate for the higher drawweight, resulting in equal strain. 74" would not be excessive, in my humble opinion. What would be wrong with that extra length?

Black locust isn't exactly a cousin of osage. While osage is in the mulberry-family, botanically speaking, the black locust is in the pea-family (along with true rosewoods and jatoba, to name a few). Black locust just 'happens' to looks a lot like osage, and also many mechanical properties a pretty much alike, albeit a bit lower in value.