Author Topic: ancient bow  (Read 5841 times)

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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2012, 05:07:00 pm »
Saw this on paleoplanet as well. The bow is only 42" long? With it being sinew backed, I can't see this being that heavy of a bow. Definitely wasn't a war bow or meant for large game.
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2012, 05:22:50 pm »
I did not see any reference to sinew in the article posted.  Was there further information on another site?
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2012, 06:09:05 pm »
Sounds like a lot of bows that Native Americans used. With a shorter draw these would have been perfect for hunting any game available or for warfare. Putting flint arrowheads on the arrows is all you need to make these into deadly little weapons!

Tiller
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

blackhawk

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2012, 07:20:35 pm »
Its made of yew and estimated to be 7400-7200 years old. There isnt any other specific details yet on it....as much as we would like to know more

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2012, 09:57:13 pm »
Yeah, the list of things I would like to know about this bow is longer than my arm!  Sapwood vs heartwood, is the sapwood thinned or whole, or all heartwood, got any sinew backing, what is the cross section of the limbs at various lengths along the way, what style of nocks, are there telltale tool marks, and on and on.

With a little more information several people here could make copies and tell us what kind of draw this little brush buster shorty may have originally had.  Dollars to donuts this bow would have had enough meat on it to take deer sized game with good arrows.  A good hunter that can get spitting close to his game does not need an Agincourt bow to bring home the groceries. 
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Dauntless

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2012, 11:03:12 pm »
What you're describing sounds like a great masters thesis project.
The starving grad student with too many hobbies.

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2012, 01:02:28 am »
Sounds more to me like the desperate musings of a frustrated bowyer wanting to copy what is probably a Master's work. 
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline criveraville

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2012, 03:38:25 am »
Interesting. I love this quote from the article, "These bows could have served different purposes, such as hunting, although if one takes into account that this activity was not all that common in the La Draga area, it cannot be ruled out that the bows may have represented elements of prestige or been related to defensive or confrontational activities."

Makes you imagine what type of "intellectual" wrote the article?!?!

"May have been related to defensive or confrontational activities."

Well hello?!?! Am I missing something here? If you have a bow in hand with bone tipped arrows and a mean grumpy person comes at you with a rock the owner of the bow may have used it as a defensive weapon...

Cipriano
I was HECHO EN MEXICO, but assembled in Texas and I'm Texican as the day is long...  Psalm 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

Offline criveraville

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2012, 03:45:14 am »
Artifacts from La Draga

Plants recovered from La Draga include cereals such as wheat and barley, peas and broad beans, and fruit such as wild grapes, blackberries, pine nuts and hazelnuts. Domestic animals includ cattle, goats, and pigs.

An enormous number of wooden tools has been recovered from the site, as well as ceramics, chipped flint, and polished stone objects. Bone and horn tools include bowls, combs, rings, eyed needles, spatulas, spoons, and bird bone tubes. Several bone arrowheads, ranging between 7-12.5 cm (3-5 in) were recovered. Most of the bone came from deer, sheep, goats and cattle.

Ceramic pots were hand-built from local clay tempered with quartz and mica. Most were small and medium-sized round pots, suitable for cooking. Large cylindrical jars with convex bottoms were used for storing food. Surface decorations on the pots include cockleshell and comb impressions, and applique.

Chipped stone tools were made from flint and quartz crystals brought from outside the area. Tools include sickles, piercers and scrapers made of microliths set into the handles of bone or antler. Groundstone adzes have been identified, as have small hand-operated mills for grinding grain.

Personal ornaments carved out of shell or animal teeth include beads, rings and bracelets. Numerous baskets made of twined sedges and rushes and reinforced by hazel branches were also found.



Looks like a lot more to do with archery was going on there than just the bow..

Cipriano
I was HECHO EN MEXICO, but assembled in Texas and I'm Texican as the day is long...  Psalm 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

mikekeswick

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2012, 11:28:16 am »
If I had one wish it would be for a time machine......imagine being able to spend a few years with the people who lived then. I think the 'primitive' tag is somehow unfitting to the highly skilled people of the distant past. It's a real shame that so much knowledge has been lost in the pursuit of 'progress'.

Offline sadiejane

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2012, 11:37:03 am »
If I had one wish it would be for a time machine......imagine being able to spend a few years with the people who lived then. I think the 'primitive' tag is somehow unfitting to the highly skilled people of the distant past. It's a real shame that so much knowledge has been lost in the pursuit of 'progress'.

agreed
what some folks tend to forget is that tho the lifestyle of these ancient folk was "primitive", they were not.
they had the same capacity for thought, creativity and ingenuity that we do today.
maybe even more so as they not only had to, to survive and thrive, but they lived closely to all other living things
and had a much deeper sense of understanding of how the natural world work than most folks today.
somehow me thinks they were not so terrible off and starving all the time as is often depicted.
do i think they had it easy, no,
but they were quite capable and knowledgeable enough to know their environments and what it took to live.
and some north american native peoples not only lived but lived well before contact.
wild women don't get the blues

mikekeswick

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2012, 11:38:06 am »
I have a lovely short piece of yew, tighter rings and thinner sapwood than i've ever seen from English yew, it's also very heavy for a little branch....I think there might just have to be a replica made of this bow :)
Would the climate where this bow was found be dry enough for a sinew backing to be feasable?

mikekeswick

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2012, 11:39:45 am »
If I had one wish it would be for a time machine......imagine being able to spend a few years with the people who lived then. I think the 'primitive' tag is somehow unfitting to the highly skilled people of the distant past. It's a real shame that so much knowledge has been lost in the pursuit of 'progress'.

agreed
what some folks tend to forget is that tho the lifestyle of these ancient folk was "primitive", they were not.
they had the same capacity for thought, creativity and ingenuity that we do today.
maybe even more so as they not only had to, to survive and thrive, but they lived closely to all other living things
and had a much deeper sense of understanding of how the natural world work than most folks today.
somehow me thinks they were not so terrible off and starving all the time as is often depicted.
do i think they had it easy, no,
but they were quite capable and knowledgeable enough to know their environments and what it took to live.
and some north american native peoples not only lived but lived well before contact.

It sounds like we think the same on this subject. Thanks for the original post.

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: ancient bow
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2012, 02:38:03 pm »
Interesting. I love this quote from the article, "These bows could have served different purposes, such as hunting, although if one takes into account that this activity was not all that common in the La Draga area, it cannot be ruled out that the bows may have represented elements of prestige or been related to defensive or confrontational activities."

Makes you imagine what type of "intellectual" wrote the article?!?!

"May have been related to defensive or confrontational activities."

Well hello?!?! Am I missing something here? If you have a bow in hand with bone tipped arrows and a mean grumpy person comes at you with a rock the owner of the bow may have used it as a defensive weapon...

Cipriano

The part that gets my hackles up is pure speculation on the author's part..."if one takes into account that this activity was not all that common in the La Draga area".  Just HOW does the author know what activity was common and uncommon in La Draga during a period in time where there was no written history?

Speculation bordering on pure prejudice.  Apparently the writer has some preconception of a Noble Savage living at peace with the world around him.  Never mind that if you had flocks/herds of domesticated animals, you had predators willing, ready, and able to hunt your critters.  But no, they were Noble Savages, living in harmony.  They had a wonderful sit-down dinner with the predators and served them a nice tofu curry and asked the predators to eat more wild carrots and fewer milk goats.  Riiiiiight!

They also had pottery for the storage of foodstuffs.  Ant and the Grasshopper, by Aesop.  One group works their butts off gathering food for the hungry seasons, the other parties and revels.  But in real life the ant don't feed the grasshopper.  Heck no, the Grasshopper Clan gets all the boys together and sneaks in at sunrise to bash up the Ant Tribe to take their stored grain.  No surprise they had bows, arrows, flint knives, spear points and so on.  They probably had an arms race with the Grasshopper Clan until such time that both sides realized that food free for the taking was now costing LIVES.   

"May have been related to defensive or confrontational activities."  That qualifies as an understatement, doncha think?  To prepare for peace, be ready for war...certainly they too were aware of this axiom.  Ok, I surrender the soapbox now. 
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.