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Author Topic: ceder bow  (Read 5231 times)

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Offline sound maker

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ceder bow
« on: May 28, 2012, 09:56:48 pm »
 So I got some ceder that has dryed a bit with some rough tillering and I think its still a little green but not alot. I'm just going to work on the bend and leave it be without going for a specific draw lenght or weight. So far I got it so its bending nice with one side stronger then the other and was wonder when I get them bending evenly can I just clean it up and then seal it???
So far I got it so can be draw to about 22 inches and as soon I can get it bending evenly and maybe a bit further I was going to finish it with tru oil or shellac and wax.
  and no I don't really know what kind it is but so far it the pieces I have used have been nice and the one that I broke was because I pulled to far.  Thanks for any advice you guys can give me.  Going to try and get some pics up.
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Offline M-P

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2012, 02:53:57 am »
Howdy,  So what's your question?   Without knowing the type of wood and dimensions, it's kind of hard to give constructive criticism.   
One concern I have is your statement that the wood is still a little green.   Working a stave before it's fully dried is a good way to get a bow with excessive set.   Now that you have the stave worked to nearly final dimensions, it would be best to set it aside until you know the wood is fully dried.   The good news is that the wood will finish drying relatively quickly now that it as been worked down in size.
The finishes you mention are all widely used on bows.   
Photos would be nice.
Ron
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Offline sound maker

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 06:40:59 pm »
Well it broke. I had the pics and was about to put a backing on it but it had a tension break. I think I'm just going to leave ceder wood alone for now since it kepts being a pain in the butt.
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 07:13:10 pm »
You would be closer to the rest of the "crowd" if you left cedar alone, assuming you mean white cedar. There are good reasons you dont see many bows of cedar, cypress, willow, basswood, pine's and the sorts. Sure one pops up here and there, but few get past the photo opp.
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mikekeswick

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2012, 04:02:47 am »
Sinew backed ERC is an awesome combo. Rawhide works well also. Maybe not for a beginner though.
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Offline DarkSoul

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2012, 12:53:54 pm »
What "ceder"? There is no such wood as "ceder".

Were you working with Eastern red cedar? Western red cedar? Lebanon cedar? White cedar? Cigarbox cedar? That matters a lot!
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Offline randman

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 03:24:49 pm »
More than likely from the Puget Sound area - Western Red. Not a great bow wood (everybody says) but I have a couple of branch staves that show some real potential for the right design.
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Offline sound maker

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 06:54:51 pm »
I had a nice piece a while ago that was great. The only reason why it broke was from me pulling it a little too far. That's stuff fun to work with and smells nice with a great look but I think I'm going to get a pieces thats about 3-4 inches thick rough out the limbs and let it set for 6 months or a year or a while in a hot box and then just back it with burlap most likely before I do anymore work on it. Also I think my problems with the stuff that I used lies with the fact I keep using branches from the tree and it started from one that was 1" 3/4"-2" 1/2" thick and going to 7/8" thick.
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 What one person calls common sense another calls wisdom.

Offline sound maker

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012, 10:02:16 pm »
 Well after some time and reading decided to look at the ceder that I broke and make it into a short bow in imitation of the west coast bows but maybe flat bowish since I don't really have the width and thickness I think. I was thinking it would be nice and fun to do but the wood got kind of hard to bend and is taking some work to get it to bend. Think I might have to add something to the handle area so its somewhat stiffer since its bending there more then I feel comfortable with (this is the lower limb of the first piece of ceder, and yes its most likely western ceder) but seems to take to it and I am going to back it, most likely with burlap or paper since that's what I have. 
    The dimensions are 44" long with a 4" handle that's 1 3/8" wide and 7/8" thick with 1/2" fade, with the limbs staying at 1 3/8" wide and tapering 10" from the tips to about 3/4", limbs go to about 6/8" thick for most of the limbs until the last 3 inches where they go to about 7/8" thick. The bow also has about 2 3/8" of deflex.
  So should I just keep going and working the limbs down so it bends evenly and after that make the pin nocks or another one from the west coast bows section in the traditional bowyer's bible pg.178? and I should reflex the tips shouldn't I.
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Offline randman

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 10:18:59 pm »
Soundmaker, is the piece you have from a branch or a cedar board. If it's a board, I wouldn't bother but if it's a branch that had sapwood and heartwood, it might be ok. I wouldn't bother with paper for a backing, it won't be enough for cedar. It might be a good one to try some sinew. I've been using dog chew sinew from the pet stores around here. There is a yarn store (they sell weaver's supplies) in the U-district up here in Seattle that sells raw flax fiber and its real cheap ($4 for enough to do 4 or 5 bows that size) that might be an easier and better choice for you. Inexpensive materials to experiment with (and that cedar bow will be an experiment). I think you'll like the flax better than paper or burlap. How's that scotchbroom workin out for you? Have you made anything with it?
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Offline sound maker

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012, 11:15:29 pm »
I started to work on it my my knife wasn't sharp enough to really cut it and my surform kind of stopped and I had to do stuff but I will be getting to it its just been wet when I wasn't busy with something. going to try and get to it since they're all around 1" thick so I'm just going to be doing rasp work on them so most likely it going to be awhile until I get it semi done but on the good side at least they should be season all the way through and I'm thinking of just leaving the bark on just sand it down so they don't pop off. if everything works out I should have some shooters for a camp in August that I'm going to.
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 What one person calls common sense another calls wisdom.

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 06:46:37 pm »
It is absolutely crucial you figure out the wood species. Many woods called 'cedar' are softwoods that are NOT bowwoods at all. Actually, the only good one is Eastern Red Cedar. If you are indeed working with Western red cedar, the message is simple: it is not a bowwood and will only disappoint you. Especially with a highly stressed short bow, and you even considering recurving it, you are very likely to be greatly disappointed again. Save yourself all the trouble and get a proper bowwood. Western red cedar, being very soft and weak, is not one of them.
Can you post a clear picture (camera set on "macro"-mode, pic taken outside in bright daylight) for proper wood ID?
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Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 11:41:10 am »
I don't know about western red cedar, and I have never worked with any of the cedars native to our pacific northwest, but there is mention of natives using cedar for sinew-backed bows, and there is a guy in california making some sinew-backed incense cedar that seem to perform quite well.  Check out his website called heartwood bows. Under the bows and stats tab, under Miwok bows, he describes in brief his process for incense cedar.  Good luck. 
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Offline M-P

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2012, 08:39:21 pm »
Howdy Folks,  I just picked up some incense cedar yesterday.  A city crew was trimming some lower limbs in a city park.   The workmen said I welcome to all I wan't as long as I waited 'til they quit for the day.   I only found one straight piece, but it made my car smell like freshly sharpened pencils all the way home.   Which come to think of it is a good way to ID incense cedar.   Wooden pencils are made from incense cedar, so most people will recognize the smell.   Ron
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"A man should make his own arrows."   Omaha proverb   

"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."    Will Rogers

Offline sound maker

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Re: ceder bow
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 10:00:18 pm »
Darksoul:  I'm don't mean to be mean to you but the native people have made bows with cedar and its possible to make a bow with western ceder, its just more difficult to do and generally they would back it with sinew. Yes I know its not the best wood and yes I know this is a high stress design and yes what I'm planning is hard on "good" wood but if I only do stuff that's is easy, safe, and confine to a set of direction means no growth. I understand what you're saying and I did read up on it and I wanted to make one anyways. So far it HAS NOT disappointed me, the piece is nice and while it came from a broken bow. The bow broke only because I pulled too far.  This is a challenge that I picked to see what I can do and to see if I can make something from a wood that is difficult.
As I said I don't mean to be mean. I understand what I'm doing and what problems I'm going to have and I ask others who have more experience then me to give me ideas and tips to help me attain my goal.
    Thanks for advice.
CMB:  I'll go see the site when I'm able to thanks.
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I am not the best but learn from the wise and you'll end up being called he best!
 What one person calls common sense another calls wisdom.
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