When do you start calling yourself a bowyer?

[Pat B]

Yeah, JW bow building is a craft, not art. There are folks that have made art out of their bows but most of us make tools. Just the bend of a bow could be considered art but it takes a craftsman to achieve that bend. Also, like Jude says, there are so few artisans left we've gotta keep it going.

[Del the cat]

When you start looking at trees the way you used to look at pretty ladies .
Del

[Pappy]

That's called getting old Del. Don't know the answer,not sure their is one that folks will agree on, kind of like Seasoned v Dry or heat v no heat or Hand tools v power tools, and I can go on and on, all I know for sure is I make wood bows.
   Pappy

[Hrothgar]

Pappy, I started to hit the 'like' button after I read your post, then realized I wasn't on Facebook...guess I need to spend more time working on bows and less time at the computer

[country]

Will ya look at the hedgeapples on that beauty eh Del....?

[Badger]

  Maybe we should come out with a test and see how we rank.
   Knowledge of where to find various wood species, Wood selection, wood identification, curing wood, manipulating wood.
   Mastery of the various tools we use, both hand and power as well as culls, steamers forms etc.
   Knowledge of how to maintain these tools.
   Ability to build an efficient bow of virtually any draw weight, draw length, and style, from any acceptable bow wood. Or simply list the styles and draw weights range you are comfortable in.
   Have a reasonable knowledge of the theory involved in bows and how to apply it in a wide variety of scenarios.
   Have a reasonable knowledge of the working properties of wood and other materials we use.
    Finishing tecniques and knowledge of how to use various finishes.
    Skilled in leather working and handle work.
    Setting up and tuning a bow.
Trouble shooting and repairing shooting issues, handshock, torquing, etc.
    String making. 
Their are probably several items I missed but you get the idea. The more areas we qualified in the more complete we would be as bowyers, if we bought seasoned staves, and made beautiful good shooting bows of only one style we would still be bowyers.

[Del the cat]

TEST? AAAARRGGGGHHHH.
In one word you've probably summed up why many of us enjoy making bows.
No paperwork,
no tests,
no compulsory registration to 'authorised bodies',
no auditing,
no management,
no budgets, timescales, interminable meetings, risk assesments etc...
Don't think I need to carry on do I?
Del

[George Tsoukalas]

I think you have become a bowyer when you know the word is not spelled "boyer". Jawge

[dwardo]

  Maybe we should come out with a test and see how we rank.
   Knowledge of where to find various wood species, Wood selection, wood identification, curing wood, manipulating wood.
   Mastery of the various tools we use, both hand and power as well as culls, steamers forms etc.
   Knowledge of how to maintain these tools.
   Ability to build an efficient bow of virtually any draw weight, draw length, and style, from any acceptable bow wood. Or simply list the styles and draw weights range you are comfortable in.
   Have a reasonable knowledge of the theory involved in bows and how to apply it in a wide variety of scenarios.
   Have a reasonable knowledge of the working properties of wood and other materials we use.
    Finishing tecniques and knowledge of how to use various finishes.
    Skilled in leather working and handle work.
    Setting up and tuning a bow.
Trouble shooting and repairing shooting issues, handshock, torquing, etc.
    String making. 
Their are probably several items I missed but you get the idea. The more areas we qualified in the more complete we would be as bowyers, if we bought seasoned staves, and made beautiful good shooting bows of only one style we would still be bowyers.

Could not make a string if my life depended on it!
I would call my self a bowyer simply because I like making bows and as far as the dictionary goes a bowyer is someone who makes bows We are all just a bunch of wood worriers in my book

[JackCrafty]

 

[Sidewinder]

I don't call myself a bowyer, but there are those around me that do. Actually they don't know to use the word, but when I get introduced to someones I don't know, alot of my friends introduce me as Danbow. They say" he makes bows". I would say that if men that I respect, that know the craft( like you guys)  consider me a bowyer, then I must be one. Now to what level of skill I have attained, that is a different differientiation. I would consider myself to be border line apprentice-Journeyman. Probabley closer to apprentice in that I have restricted myself to just a couple designs. I harvest my own wood, cure and store it properly, have made most with hand tools. I seem to tiller reasonabley well, and the finished product is a combination of an effective weapon as well as something that is pleasing to the eye. I still find myself avoiding my staves that possess more troubles than my pea brain can handle, so I think like I said before I'm probabley more of an apprentice still, although I don't find myself asking near as many questions as I once did.   Danny

[Badger]

       This is an interesting topic. None of us had access to bowyers 25 years ago. We taught ourselves and each other, sometimes face to face and sometimes via the internet. Many different skills were brought to the table as this skill has reimerged. We all shared what skills or aptitudes we had to offer and the net result is that we are seeing some dam good bows comming out . Mechanics, masons, carpenters, plumbers, writers, Dr's, metal workers etc all serve apprentices of sorts before they can call them selves journeymen or masters. I feel the same way about bowyers, it is a true craft requiring a lot of knowledge to be well rounded even though most anybody can make a bow with just a little instruction.
       I would not object or find it offensive in anyway if a guild were established with a set criteria needed to establish oneself as a master bowyer. Maybe something like 75% to 80% success in say 80% of  stipulated areas to qualify. I don't believe in throwing titles around loosely, some of us have worked too dam hard to attain the one or ones we do have. I am a mechanic who makes bows as a hobby, I am now retired and would enjoy attaining my master bowyers certificate through the guild! Steve

[toomanyknots]

I would not object or find it offensive in anyway if a guild were established with a set criteria needed to establish oneself as a master bowyer.

Well in there kinda already is:

http://www.bowyers.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=185&Itemid=318

Just some thoughts...

...I would personally hate for a bunch of people to get together and decide a bunch of "rules" just to be able to tell everyone what to do. If your selling a bunch of bows, commercially, than there is a good reason to teach some other guys your craft, which would be to have them help you out and help make $. Because it would be your craft, in the days of guilds, and not your hobby. Like it is today for framers or plumbers. I would guess most people nowadays get into making traditional bows out of the love of it, and not for the need to make bread from it. The need for rank in carpentry and plumbing and other trades are needed, or else our houses would be fallin down on us when the new guys get signed on and decide they don't need those extra storm braces, or feel like puttin em on upside down instead of concentrating on picking up trash like they're supposed to. ( ) Now if anyone wants to show me how to make 300 -  350 a week just startin out from bowyer-ing like you can in carpentry, sign me up for an apprenticeship!  These bows used to be an essential need, like when a mechanic fixed your car, and your car is an essential need of life nowadays. A bowyer was probably a respected craftsmen or trade in that day, compared to today where if I said all I did was "play with my wood" all day, my wife would tell me to go get a job! In the days of "bowyers" and "bowyers guilds" bows were mass produced military weapons designed to kill your enemy from as far away as possible. Now they are lower draw weight hunting and target bows, made mostly by the people who get the most joy out of making and shooting them, I would guess. If there is need for a title to ensure that a bowyer is accomplished, then reputation alone will always more than suffice. Especially with the internet up and running.

[Badger]

     Knots actually establishing a guild and a curriculum would be a logistcal nightmare! As you say, who would make the rules? Who would select those that made the rules?  I would think that about 70% of the curriculum should be based on actually building bows and the other 30% on related skills. I buy 90% my wood in stave or board form so have not developed the best skills in selecting trees or curing for that matter. I have never gotten into finishing bows so lack skills in that area, same with handle wraps and a number of other related skills.
    Can you imagine the fighting, argueing, and divisions that might happen in setting up a guild? Also, many bowyers specialize in one type of bow, say elbs, or native american for instance and they get really good at it. As long as they stayed within their area of expertise they would be true bowyers. This would indicate a need for sub classes and trying to categorize all the different bows. Sounds like a pain in the rear.

[Del the cat]

Can't see any point in a guild.
There is one in the UK the 'Worshipful Company of Bowyers' or something like that.
I looked at their website... I could send pics of my work and pay 'em thirty five quid or somesuch each year for the privelige of them telling me what I already know... that I'm a bowyer.
Send me the money, I'll tell you anything you want to hear, heck I'll even say you're pretty
Del