Hard to dry woods

[vinemaplebows]

Fruit woods, ocean spray, hawthorn are woods that are difficult to dry....But I have discovered that by submerging the wood in water for up to a month decreases the cracking of the wood considerably. Native americans use to put their staves in creeks for a length of time to remove "saps" if I remember right. I do not believe that this is true, as saps are not water soluble if they are a true sap.

What I believe truly happens is that inner heart wood is dryer than wood closer to the sap, therefore there is a dramatic curve in the drying from internal wood compared to wood closer to the cambium layer (where moisture is transfered to the tree or shrub) By submerging the wood in water till it is totally saturated the drying process is then equilized, and therefore less cracking accurs.

I also have a wood turner that has imformed me that to decrease cracking in wood boil it,(whole stave) I know this is not practical for most people, but would be a interesting experiment.


Brian

[Gordon]

Hmm, that's an interesting theory. I'm going to have to try that out.

[Blacktail]

this is an interesting topic..in some deep thinking about seasoning wood..i talked to josh about seasoning wood in salt water since he lives on the coast...and to see if he gets a differant kind of responce out of the wood...who knows maybe i am just thinking to hard..LOL...john

[Lone500]

ive submerged hickory for 2 weeks. seems to be drying pretty well. i sealed it before i submerged it and when it came out the ends checked slightly. i cut the ends and resealed just to see how deep the cracks went. they didnt go in more than 1/16. otherwise they have been drying well and evenly without wanting to curve and twist nearly as bad.

[vinemaplebows]

Lone,

                Try 30 days, bet it will go even better... 

[Bryce]

.But I have discovered that by submerging the wood in water for up to a month decreases the cracking of the wood considerably. Native americans use to put their staves in creeks for a length of time to remove "saps" if I remember right. I do not believe that this is true, as saps are not water soluble if they are a true sap.

ive heard something similar. ive read that they would be submerged under the mud next to or in the creek. i dont really recall the amount of time. it would be interesting to cut a "control" stave and have "A" in the stream submerged. "B" buried next to creek. and "C" buried in creek......and if you wanted to get a wide range of results do A-C with salt water.

[Mangeur de lard]

That does make sense Brian, I just harvested and roughed out a stave this afternoon and I thought the difference between sapwood and heartwood moisture was dramatic. Maybe if one would seal a stave thoroughly on all its sides for a certain time, inner moisture would equilibrate between heart- and sapwood and if the stave would then be split it would dry more evenly. Just a thought, interesting subject for sure.
Cheers!
Matt

[vinemaplebows]

I cut tons of fire wood, logs can sit on the ground for yrs, and the centers  on wood cut 3-5 yrs earlier has dry centers....burnable. I think the wood needs to be submerged in water to "force" water back into the fibers through exposure after the wood has been split. On the other hand small diameter wood up to 3" I think if fully submerged would be fine, and that has been my expirience with hawthorn and ocean spray anyways..I have a huge pool I hate that I have found a use for!

Brian

[criveraville]

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Cipriano

[Elktracker]

Ill have to try this with a chunk of ocean spray thanks VineMaplebows I was watching a tv show that john strunk did allong time ago I think it was called the Northwest hunter and he took two guys out into the woods and harvested VM and made bows from it, he mentioned in that video about submerging the staves in a creek for a month or so and coming back and getting it. I will have to ask him about it and get his take on it.

Blacktail I still havent tried the salt water submersion yet but I will, I was down at the dock about a week ago and found a spot I cant secure the stave to that would work well i think. I went out and got some Vine Maple today and plan on going out again in the next day or two so I will set one aside for this.

Bryce the problem I see with doing multiple staves is it wouldnt be a very accurate test as every piece of wood is different wish we had one someone who knew more about it, interesting indeed

Josh

[Bryce]

i was thinking more of hacking up the same stave into 4 pieces.

[dwardo]

i was thinking more of hacking up the same stave into 4 pieces.

It is a good idea and i am sure there is plenty of merit in trying, but, as said above each stave is different, even in the same log. I woul dbe willing to try anything as some woods are just a plain nightmare to dry.

[Dazv]

Ill have to try this with a chunk of ocean spray thanks VineMaplebows I was watching a tv show that john strunk did allong time ago I think it was called the Northwest hunter and he took two guys out into the woods and harvested VM and made bows from it, he mentioned in that video about submerging the staves in a creek for a month or so and coming back and getting it. I will have to ask him about it and get his take on it.

Blacktail I still havent tried the salt water submersion yet but I will, I was down at the dock about a week ago and found a spot I cant secure the stave to that would work well i think. I went out and got some Vine Maple today and plan on going out again in the next day or two so I will set one aside for this.

Bryce the problem I see with doing multiple staves is it wouldnt be a very accurate test as every piece of wood is different wish we had one someone who knew more about it, interesting indeed

Josh

that show sounds good do you know if there any way to watch it on the internet??? Thanks alot

[Marc St Louis]

What I believe truly happens is that inner heart wood is dryer than wood closer to the sap, therefore there is a dramatic curve in the drying from internal wood compared to wood closer to the cambium layer (where moisture is transfered to the tree or shrub) By submerging the wood in water till it is totally saturated the drying process is then equilized, and therefore less cracking accurs.

Brian

I believe that what happens when wood splits is that the outer wood dries at a faster rate and therefore tries to shrink around the core wood, which it can't do.  It therefore splits to accommodate the larger diameter of the core.   The same thing applies to end splits.

[richardzane]

sounds like a good experiment for sure.
all staves might be different, but if its done enough, a general rule or opinion might emerge?

what concerns me is whether 30 days soaking might weaken that sap layer.
there are oils in that sap that probably oughta stay put,  and we wouldn't want those oils "leeched out" by soaking.

I've done some steaming ,where i feel the wood became more brittle once bent and dried.
But then, I haven't done much steaming,  maybe i wasn't doing it right.