bow woods willow?

[stickbender]

     I read once in a book on American Indians, that some plains tribes used Willow, but they were sinew backed.   Supposed to have been very good bows, as long as the weather held out.

[jkekoni]

It is also worth to note, that what is good wood is dependent if you have:
a) bandsaw
b) Fiskars vesuri (Matchete like tool )
c) Sharp stone flint.

With the a) the 1st choise is naturally hickory or Osage.

With the c) it is worth thinking if you can live with willow or rowan...

[duffontap]

I just talked to John Strunk about his willow bow last night.  The stave came from Idaho.  He says it's 55" ntn, and 62# @ 26".  No sinew backing.  He has also made a bow out of a local Oregon willow and said it shot well.  He took the weight down and gave it away.  He said several times, "willow makes a nice bow."  J. D. Duff

[Pappy]

I would be up to build a Willow bow if I can find some willow.We used to have a lot of it but we cleaned out around the ponds and I haven't noticed any lately,of course I haven't been looking.
   Pappy

[stickbow]

I just talked to John Strunk about his willow bow last night.  The stave came from Idaho.  He says it's 55" ntn, and 62# @ 26".  No sinew backing.  He has also made a bow out of a local Oregon willow and said it shot well.  He took the weight down and gave it away.  He said several times, "willow makes a nice bow."  J. D. Duff

That must be some drastically different willow compared to the stuff we have here. Amazing.
If he can use something like willow for a good bow, that is motivating enough for me to try to make a bow out of some of my own local low-density lumber. I'm making myself a boxelder bow.

[Pat B]

You can make a bow from almost any wood as long as you match the design with the wood charactoristics.  If you have a bow type you want to make, find a wood that is compatable with that type of bow. If you have a specific wood you want to make a bow from, use a bow type or style that is appropriate for that woods specific charactoristics.   Pat

[duffontap]

Pat B--I totally agree.  I guess I'm just getting a lot more open-minded now that I've been trying more white woods.  Much of the popular treatment of white woods so far is really incomplete.  I am personally less interested in using woods that require very wide, long, rectangular limbs so when I started building bows I was guilty of ignoring a lot of white woods and missing out.  The truth is, there are white woods that can be made into English-styled longbows without taking hardly any set--or even maintaining reflex.  The only loss in style might be less of a D cross-section.  I guess what I'm saying is, just because hickory and elm are best at 2" wide, doesn't mean all white woods are--and there are a lot of beginning bowyers who might be relieved to hear it.  Oceanspray, Service berry and a few other shrubs that are local to me can be made less than an inch wide at normal lengths without taking an inch of string follow.  Cascara, Crabapple, and vine maple can be made 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches wide at normal lengths and high weights.  The good news is, for people who like that narrower style, there are a lot of 'junk' woods that can handle the extra stress--they just don't have to spring for Osage or Yew every time they build a bow--Osage and Yew can be reserved for special bows.

Tim Baker said we were still learning--I sure am.  It's getting more exciting every day.

By the way, Strunk's stave was 'Bibbs' willow (SP?).

                J. D. Duff

[Pat B]

Experimentation is why we are where we are today. If ya don't know if it will work, try it!...or like Pappy said, make a minature bow out of the wood and see if it will work.    I'm so spoiled with osage that I don't experiment enough. This winter I'll try to get more serious about "other" woods.    Pat

[Justin Snyder]

This topic is of particular intrest to me. Ive been planning to make a bow of a local "native" wood.  We have a lot of stuff around but the willow is about the only one that I can say of a surety that the early settlers didn't bring in. There are some others like mesquite, scrub oak,and juniper but they grow more like bushes making it hard to get enough wood for a bow. Ive decided that willow is what I'm going to try and they usually have a diameter of 3" or less so I'm going to make a flat bow with a backing of plant fiber. Ive got a few ideas on backing material but that info will have to wait until a later time .  Justin

[duffontap]

Justin, 

I think there is something really special about building bows out of local material you cut yourself.  For Pappy, that means a lot of Osage, Hickory, and Iron Wood.  For me it means a little Yew and a dozen or so shrubs and small trees (half of which most people don't even know exist).  Like Pat B says, we do need to expiriment--that's why we're here still, and why we havn't wiped out the world's population of Osage and Yew.   

If you can find a way to build a really good bow out of a local willow, that may pave the way for another bowyer to go cut a piece of wood himself instead of being forced to build every bow out of lumber yard material.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. 

                  J. D. Duff

[Shooter]

Interesting discussion

I've seen a few fine examples of native bows which were made from a willow the indigenous folks referred to as, "moose rub", among other names.

Their selection of suitable willow is based on the length of the trunk and the character that already exists in the stock. Mind, this is from willow that grows in a far northern habitat on the fringes of the tundra where the wind and light cycles are pretty extreme.

The wood is sealed with pine sap mixed with wood ash - a hideous grey that probably protects the bare wood from UV light as much as it does moisture.

[Asiertxu]

Cheers Ratty!! ..

I´ve never made a bow out of willow, but keep in mind that there are SEVERAL short of willows out there mate (at least in Europe...).
I´ve eard that the one of the long hanging leaves "Salix babylonica":

http://thebegavalley.org.au/uploads/tx_steverplantgallery/Salix_babylonica_01_weeping%20willow.jpg

, isn´t any good for bow making but is better for natural string making (by peelling the bark in long strips...among other uses such as basketry etc......).
In the other hand there are other kind of willows that there aren´t so bad for bow making even good for some people!! (I have to try one  ), "Salix Caprea" and "Salix Atrocinerea":

http://thebegavalley.org.au/uploads/tx_steverplantgallery/Salix_caprea_01_pussy%20willow_catkins.jpg
http://thebegavalley.org.au/uploads/tx_steverplantgallery/Salix_caprea_02_pussy%20willow_.jpg

These are the species I´m talking about and I´m sure that in your area (England) can find them without alot of effort!!
Eventhough, If you have White Oak, I´d go for that without doubt it firstly!!.. ..

Hope this helps!!
Cheers..

Asier.

[carpenter374]

navajo, pueblo, and anasazi bows were made from willow. generally for lack of a better wood growing in their territory. they generally made the bows unbacked and man sized in length. with STRING FOLLOW. the string follow won't let it shoot like an osage stave but is none the less a formidable weapon. 2 to4 inches of string follow was common.

[Badger]

I will just share my one willow bow experience about 10 years ago. The log dried very fast in about 2 weeks I think. I roughed out a bow about 6 ft long and 4" wide, let it finish drying and it was only drawing about 35#. Ist time I took an almost full draw it popped in half like a cork no splinters just "popped" From that point on I classed it as a non bow wood. I don't know the species of willow but it was the lightest weakest wood I had ever seen in my life.

[Justin Snyder]

It would be interesting to know the types of willow people have had luck with.  The Southwestern Tribes used Coyote willow.  I tried Peach leaf willow in a 4" wide pyramid. It took a ton of set. Acted like it was wet all the time.  In Europe they use a certain strain of White Willow to make the bats for cricket.