Selfbow Take-Down Questions

[gmc]

Hello everyone.

I need a little help with a few questions on building a take-down selfbow. My plan to is to build this bow from Osage but my stash of Osage has depleted and I only have a few billets to work with. What is the common practice for building this type design? What I mean is: I have envisioned building the bow to almost completion then separating the limbs to add the sleeve. Will adding the sleeve at the beginning using billets pose any extra pitfalls in the process? I know, that sounds like a crazy question but I am fishing for information as I've never built this type of design and know nothing about what to expect.

The bow will be the typical flatbow design for me, 65'' long with a draw of 28'' in the 65lb. range.

Also, the actual sleeves, what's the best and where do you purchase? How much length does the sleeves normally add to the overall length if any? Just trying to gauge my billets for something that might work.

All comments are welcome and thanks in advance for your input.

gmc

 

[gstoneberg]

I'm confused as to how you could build the bow nearly to completion with billets not in the sleeve and not splice the handle?  You could do that with a stave bow for sure.  I would not though, as you can use wood not suitable for a splice or even a good limb off a broken bow for a takedown.  Interestingly, my takedown is virtually never apart.  With the humidity down here the last time I wanted it apart it was quite a struggle.

What I do is chase the back growth ring on each billet individually.  Then I draw knife the shape to what I expect to be to the point of being ready to start floor tillering.  Next I do the fitting of the splice tubes paying special attention to keeping twist out of the bow.  Make sure you draw a center line down each billet and stay on it with the tube or your string won't stay in the handle.  From then on I complete the bow like any other bow.  You do have to protect the handle tube from vise jaws.

I buy my splice tubes from 3rivers.  2" of the handle goes into each tube and they butt together when assembled, so it does not add length to the bow.

George

[broketooth]

the sleeve is 4" long. you can get them from several suppliers. just make sure it comes with 2 brass inner sleeves. i used the smaller size on my takedown. use five minute epoxy to install the brass butts on your billets and let cure for 24 hrs. great care needs to be taken when intalling these to avoid unnecessary limb twist take your time and go slow. rv

[gmc]

Thanks Fellas.

George, I was referring to the process of building a take-down. I don't currently have anything that I could use full length in Osage. But if I did, that would be my approach getting close to completion and then adding the sleeve. 

Thanks for the tips on the centerline and abuse from the jaws of the vice. This is why I wanted to ask. I can see a greater opportunity for a better result from a full length stave, I may opt to build this bow out of Locust as I do have some premium stuff full length that should perform well. High humidity is also a consideration with where I live as well. I have big plans for this bow.

Broketooth, thanks for the advice. I plan on taking my time on this one, it will be a long project with hopefully a nice outcome. 

[Gordon]

I cannot see the advantage of using a full length stave for building a takedown bow.  I align the limbs for a take-down the same way I do with spliced billets - for each limb use a chaulk line to draw a line between the tip and the middle of the handle and then align the lines. That will get you close and then use heat on the limbs for any minor adjustments.

[broketooth]

i actually cut a perfectly good stave in half befor floor tiller to install my takedown sleeve. and then tillered the bow as normal. once i figured out which limb was to be the upper limb i drilled a hole through the sleeve and the butt while it was in the sleeve and installed a brass pin to permently fix the steel sleeve to the upper limb. hope this helps. rv

[sonny]

wouldn't it make more sense to leave the tips full width of the billets or nearly so until the sleeves are fitted ??
then you could simply move the tip slightly one way or the other without heat.

bear in mind that I have yet to build a takedown,, though I do have plans to make one..have had the sleeves for
some time now, just need to find a pair of good billets.

 

[Gordon]

wouldn't it make more sense to leave the tips full width of the billets or nearly so until the sleeves are fitted ??
then you could simply move the tip slightly one way or the other without heat.

That depends on how much crown your stave has. For high crowned staves, I prefer to keep the high point of the crown down the center of the limbs to avoid twist.

[nathan elliot]

I'm with Gordon, go with billets every time. Full length stave's for full length bows. I buy my sleeves from flybow, because I live in Europe. Threerivers archery do them too. I always go for the small version of the sleeve as I use dense wood like Laburnum or Yew, Osage would be a small sleeve for me to. I have used the big sleeve but I didn't like it, so now only go with small. Because I don't buy my wood (i barter and triad for it) the sleeve is the most significant outlay 30ish euros, I try to get both billets actually looking like bow limbs before I go ahead with the glue up. I shape and fit the sleeves first, then like I use a chalk line to see how we are looking, heat gun correction is simple enough on a billet. I get a nice even taper on the limbs and only when I am sure its going to be a bow I do the glue up, don't want to have to get them sleeves off- it If doesn't turn out! Once I have it all glued up, its simply a matter for the scrapper to bring it to a nice tiller. I personally think I'm going to move towards making more and more take downs. They are way easier to find the right length wood for, they are way more practical for transporting, the weight of the handle makes a natural damper reducing hand shock. I could go on, but you get the picture. I prefer to make ELB style crowned belly bows as take downs, just because the shape of the sleeve lends itself to this design and I'm hooked on them! Flatbow Osage take down sounds cool! I'm building a nice Yew ELB style take down at the mo, just glued her up, will post pics soon.

[gstoneberg]

Oooh, I'd like to see a pic of an ELB takedown.  GMC, do you care if we post some takedown pics in your thread?

George

[gmc]

Thanks to each and everyone for their contributions here, its all good stuff!

George, I have no problem at all with pictures posted in this thread.

Bring it!

[gstoneberg]

I'm hoping to see pics of that ELB takedown, but here are shots of mine:





This one is a case of mating a good bow limb on a bow that broke in tillering with a billet.  Made for some wacky tillering, but came out great.  It is my current hunting bow.  The sleeve came with 2 brass inserts, but I glued the top limb right into the steel tube so the rest would be fixed in position.  One more thing.  Make sure your wood to sleeve fit on the brass one is not too tight.  Otherwise you'll deform it as you install it and then it is a bugger to get it to go in the steel side.  (It's a challenge as it is.)  Next time I'll blend my fades into the sleeve better.

George

[nathan elliot]

You can see a couple of mine here- http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,25767.15.html

[gmc]

Gordon, thanks for the input on the process, Its always appreciated. That takedown bow you posted not long ago poured a little gas on the fire.

George, thanks for posting those pictures. The close-up really help me to see how tedious those sleeves could be to attach. That's a fine looking bow and thanks for posting. Any other pointers that you can give, just kick'em in here.

Nat, thanks for the play by play post and the link. I remember seeing some of those bows in the link but will never get tired of looking at your work (always a little magic). After looking at those takedowns, I'm ready to drive off in a different direction with Mulberry using a more ELB style. I've never made a ELB style bow. I've said for a long time that Mulberry should make a great ELB but have never found the right piece. This bow may be the ticket as I can match up a couple pieces that just might work. 

Darn, you guys got my head spinning.

Thanks again.

[gmc]

Thought I'd post an update on my progress towards building my first takedown. I decided to use Locust and build to the flatbow design as that is what I know and leave the ELB for the next project as this will be somewhat of a learning experience and didn't need to add another variable for new discovery.

Now for a few more questions:

The first limb is roughed out with the brass sleeve added, see below. I could have done a better job in terms of fit as there is some side to side movement and not sure how critical this will be and what glue is best to use in this application.

All comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance.