Longbow Tech Question

[Stretch]

After watching the program, the Mary Rose bow they show might have a bit of recurve, however, it had no where near the recurve of the bow they built.  I'm in no way an expert on the subject, but I know research and I know what it looks like to read your own opinions into the evidence.  To say the MR bow they showed was evidence that all/most/some longbows were recurved is a pretty big leap.  Even if that one bow had some recurve at the tips, you still have to prove that it was put there intentionally. 

[Del the cat]

Might have had a bit..
Yeah and I might have had a night of passion with Keira Knightly...
.
WALOOB
Del

[adb]

DEL!!!!... you too! 

[Stretch]

WALOOB

Exactly.  You have a theory, so you take your theory and dig through the 137 bows that were recovered until you find one that might have a bit of what you're expecting to see.  Of course you're looking for that evidence so when you see it you convince yourself it's there and say "LOOK! I have PROOF!".  It's pushing opinions into evidence.  It happens all the time in scientific studies, that's why they're peer reviewed and independently verified (or should be). 

BTW isn't it WALOB with one O?   

[Marz5]

welllllllll.... I wasn't going to thow my 2 cents in but I guess I will, if you pay close attention to the very beginning of part 4 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDoggUZTOJs&feature=related ) he shows what "appears" to be a reflexed limb. If you look again at what he calls the belly of the bow you can see the cream color of the sapwood, in other words what he just showed us was a limb with set or deflex and then claims it to be evidence of a recurved tip
me, IMHO I like the curve of the warbow w/o flipped tips

You have a theory, so you take your theory and dig through the 137 bows that were recovered until you find one that might have a bit of what you're expecting to see.  Of course you're looking for that evidence so when you see it you convince yourself it's there and say "LOOK! I have PROOF!".  It's pushing opinions into evidence.  It happens all the time in scientific studies, that's why they're peer reviewed and independently verified (or should be). 

as much as a don't like it some scientists look for the answer they want, not the truth

--Mark R.

PS: what is "WALOOB"? 

[Stretch]

he shows what "appears" to be a reflexed limb. If you look again at what he calls the belly of the bow you can see the cream color of the sapwood, in other words what he just showed us was a limb with set or deflex and then claims it to be evidence of a recurved tip

You're absolutely right.  I had to click on large screen to see it, but the sapwood is there on what he calls the belly of the bow.  They've got the bow backwards for sure. 

[Del the cat]

PS: what is "WALOOB"? 

If you google walob it gives a definition, I have merely enhanced it with the addition of the word Old before the last word.

[brian]

i feel i must take issue with Ian,regarding ,his remarks he has posted about Chris Boynton,if he turns out to be a good as bowyer  as Chris he wiil be exceptional. i have seen the bow he made for Simon Stanley its a marvellous piece of work,the best heavy bow i have seen and i have seen a lot.
As for the bowyers guild i can assure Ian he was not [kicked out].

[Del the cat]

...about Chris Boynton,...

Please please please. The guys name is Boyton.
I get the same thing with people slipping an extra N into my name... even my service provider has got it wrong which causes confusion. I know it irritates him .
Del

[brian]

hi Del,
i must admit i did not check the spelling of Chris,s surname before i replied to  Ian,s post,i do know Chris personally,i am sure he will foregive me.i am now going to write it out 100 times so i dont forget.

[Ian.]

Sent you a PM Brian

[Phil Rees]

Although there is pictorial evidence, (as Craig has mentioned) throughout the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries depicting bows used in batlle with recurve tips I think it's fair to say that it should be viewed with a degree of caution. But, what we have to remember is, Britain was not an isolated society. Before the battles of the hundred years war,  there had been over two hundred years of tooing and frowing, back and forth to the Holy land. It would be easy to see how eastern bow characteristics were incorporated into the more traditional longbow designs of western europe.

[CraigMBeckett]

Although there is pictorial evidence, (as Craig has mentioned) throughout the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries depicting bows used in batlle with recurve tips I think it's fair to say that it should be viewed with a degree of caution. But, what we have to remember is, Britain was not an isolated society. Before the battles of the hundred years war,  there had been over two hundred years of tooing and frowing, back and forth to the Holy land. It would be easy to see how eastern bow characteristics were incorporated into the more traditional longbow designs of western europe.

What I failed to mention with regard to the pictorial evidence is the the majority of the pictures are not contemporary with the scenes they depict, some being done decades later than the event,  painted/drawn by people who were not at the battles and who probably had never been near a battlefield and were possibly influenced by classical depictions of Greek bows etc. Although to be fair to the artists a lot of them were from the continent where they may have been exposed to Burgundian bows, bows that were both long and had recurved tips.

Craig.

[Hawkeye1974]

@ craig: thanks for the answer.
infact thank all of your for your answers and insite.

[bow-toxo]

Although there is pictorial evidence, (as Craig has mentioned) throughout the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries depicting bows used in batlle with recurve tips I think it's fair to say that it should be viewed with a degree of caution. But, what we have to remember is, Britain was not an isolated society. Before the battles of the hundred years war,  there had been over two hundred years of tooing and frowing, back and forth to the Holy land. It would be easy to see how eastern bow characteristics were incorporated into the more traditional longbow designs of western europe.

Concerning the pictorial evidence, check the lengths of bows pictured used in battle. Many illustrations show not longbows, but smallbows that were normally heat bent to various curvatures. A longbow [ sorry, not every self bow is a longbow] is at least the length of the archer, or much more. The smallbow, of course using shorter arrows, might reach the archer’s nose. One late mediaeval manuscript illustration depicting the 1066  invasion, shows Normans with  recurved longbows, Saxons with straight ended ones.