How many strands in a string.

[adb]

I'm guessing Ian meant the few hundred years of the medieval period.

[Ian.]

I'm guessing Ian meant the few hundred years of the medieval period.

I did, I am well aware of the Otiz bow and string but to much time has passed between the Otiz artefacts and the Medieval period for them to be in any way linked.

[bow-toxo]

My point, Erik, is that no one (not even you) knows FOR SURE the make up of a medieval bow string, because one does not exist.
[/quoe]
 That is like saying that no one can be sure 6that Attila the Hun really existed. As there is no known tomb, corpse or picture, we rely on written histories. It really takes a fool to dismiss them. However we have to ask ” Is there a motive for lying”?

Craig. There may have been little change in manufacture during the mediaeval period when guilds discouraged new ideas as unfair competition, but hemp became more used in the later Middle Ages.

[CraigMBeckett]

I'm guessing Ian meant the few hundred years of the medieval period.

I did, I am well aware of the Otiz bow and string but to much time has passed between the Otiz artefacts and the Medieval period for them to be in any way linked.

Mid 400 to mid 1400's is 1000 years, which on any reckoning is more than a few hundred.

As for no link between bows used in the Medieval period with those used in prehistory, my my what a claim! You say you are aware of Otzo's bow, well take a minute or two to think of its basic design, do you see any similarities between it and the bows at Rotten Bottom, Ashcott Heath, Hedeby, Ballinderry Cranog and on the Mary Rose, 5,000 years of development of the same type of bow

Erik,
The guilds only came into existence late in the medieval period and were only in existence as fully operating guilds for something of the order of 200 years most of which was later than the medieval period, yet bows were used throughout the 1000 years of the medieval period. Look at the relative weights of the Hedeby bows and the heavier Mary Rose bows, don't you think that the manufacture of strings had to go through massive changes to accommodate the Mary Rose weights in a string only 3.2 mm in diameter?

[adb]

Well, Erik, I'm not disputing that either Attila the Hun or medieval bow strings existed. What I am saying is, we will never know for sure the details of either Attila's life or medieval bow strings, because we can not examine them first hand. So, for you to say on this forum, that 'medieval bow strings were 3 strands' is hog wash. It's like saying Attila had 14 wives, maybe... but something we will never know for sure.

[Marlin]

I have finnished tillering this bow and got a string on it. I had to go with B50 as this is all I have right now anyway. I am a bit dissapointed in the draw weight though. I dont have a scale but it feels like 80# rather than the 100 plus I was hoping for. I don't know yet if I want nocks or overlays. I have not even shot it yet but it feels like it would hurl an arrow pretty good. My Wife was taking forever it seemed to take the full draw pictures.

[Marlin]

You can see the reflex in the Right limb in the second picture. Marlin

[adb]

That's looking pretty good for a first heavier bow. Try and get yourself some FF string. I find B50 nearly useless for bows >60#. Also, try and work at getting your draw length out to your ear. Make yourself some arrows that are 30-32" (measured from the base of the head to the valley of the nock) so you know how far you're drawing everytime. It's good to see you starting with a reasonable draw weight, and working your way up over time.

[Ian.]

I'm guessing Ian meant the few hundred years of the medieval period.

I did, I am well aware of the Otiz bow and string but to much time has passed between the Otiz artefacts and the Medieval period for them to be in any way linked.

Mid 400 to mid 1400's is 1000 years, which on any reckoning is more than a few hundred.

As for no link between bows used in the Medieval period with those used in prehistory, my my what a claim! You say you are aware od Otzo's bow, well take a minute or two to think of its basic design, do you see any similarities between it and the bows at Rotten Bottom, Ashcott Heath, Hedeby, Ballinderry Cranog and on the Mary Rose, 5,000 years of development of the same type of bow

I really don't want to get into this over the net talking always leads to problems, my original thought was that of the military bow adopted by the English from around 1100 to 1500. Nothing more. There is a smaller distance in time between us and the medieval period than between the Mperiod and Otiz, knowledge has been lost and gained in much shorter times.

[bow-toxo]

Well, Erik, I'm not disputing that either Attila the Hun or medieval bow strings existed. What I am saying is, we will never know for sure the details of either Attila's life or medieval bow strings, because we can not examine them first hand. So, for you to say on this forum, that 'medieval bow strings were 3 strands' is hog wash. It's like saying Attila had 14 wives, maybe... but something we will never know for sure.

Hogwash? Do I have your expert opinion on that? We don’t have to bet our lives on those details but we know them, not because I or someone else posts them, but because they are described in non-fiction literature of the period. You don’t seem able to recognize this. It is called research and all history we know is based on it. Ever heard of it ?  Look it up. Enlighten yourself.

[Marlin]

That's looking pretty good for a first heavier bow. Try and get yourself some FF string. I find B50 nearly useless for bows >60#. Also, try and work at getting your draw length out to your ear. Make yourself some arrows that are 30-32" (measured from the base of the head to the valley of the nock) so you know how far you're drawing everytime. It's good to see you starting with a reasonable draw weight, and working your way up over time.

[Marlin]

Thank You for that advice, ADB I will take it. I eventualy want to make some needle bodkins with 1/2" shafts that I see postedon here. Marlin

[adb]

Well, Erik, I'm not disputing that either Attila the Hun or medieval bow strings existed. What I am saying is, we will never know for sure the details of either Attila's life or medieval bow strings, because we can not examine them first hand. So, for you to say on this forum, that 'medieval bow strings were 3 strands' is hog wash. It's like saying Attila had 14 wives, maybe... but something we will never know for sure.

Hogwash? Do I have your expert opinion on that? We don't have to bet our lives on those details but we know them, not because I or someone else posts them, but because they are described in nonfiction literature of the period. You don't seem able to recognize this. It is called research and all history we know is based on it. Ever heard of it ?  Look it up. Enlighten yourself.

Back in medieval times, and especially today, anyone could write pretty much anything they want. I, for one, don't take it as gospel truth. Until a medieval period bow string is recovered, we will not know for sure what they were made of, or look like, or how many strands they contained. Remember, history is written by the victors, and is not always accurate. If you believe everything written in the past as truth, you are truly naive. The only thing we do know for sure about medieval strings is their diameter, being approx. 1/8". We can assume this because the arrow nocks found on existing medieval artifacts (some of which I've examined first hand) are that size. The rest is speculation. How they were made, and what the majority were made of is anyone's guess. To say otherwise, to a certainty, is hogwash.
 
Anyway, I'm not sure why I get involved in these childish and petty arguements. I guess because I have a hard time letting BS pass without accountability. Armchair experts have always rubbed me the wrong way. I could take a couple of people on this warbow forum more seriously if they contributed some examples of their work for all to see. I've decided not to become involved in it anymore, especially on this particular forum topic. I will continue to contribute, but not in this manner. The useless arguing is over for me. Erik, you and Craig can continue on, amazing us with your knowledge, and I'll remain out of it. This behaviour sure gets some threads way off topic. No more from me. 

[CraigMBeckett]

Adb,

Anyway, I'm not sure why I get involved in these childish and petty arguements. I guess because I have a hard time letting BS pass without accountability. Armchair experts have always rubbed me the wrong way. I could take a couple of people on this warbow forum more seriously if they contributed some examples of their work for all to see. I've decided not to become involved in it anymore, especially on this particular forum topic. I will continue to contribute, but not in this manner. The useless arguing is over for me. Erik, you and Craig can continue on, amazing us with your knowledge, and I'll remain out of it. This behaviour sure gets some threads way off topic. No more from me.

Once again you show your disregard for any kind of research into the topic and your propensity to hurl insults at others. For someone who claims not to like seeing BS pass without accountability, you have a very selective approach to it, in both giving it out and picking people up on it.

Craig.

[CraigMBeckett]

Ian,

There is a bigger distance in time between us and the medieval period then between the Mperiod and Otiz, knowledge has been lost and gained in much shorter times.

Otzi = 5,300 years ago;

Medieval period, 550 to 1,550 years ago

I suggest you look at your statement again, we are much closer to the medieval period than Otzi's time was to it, and even with our advantage of the written record, we still have virtually no idea how the medieval string was made.

Craig.