Do you make temperary self nocks before installing horn nocks on a longbow?

[toomanyknots]

So when making a bow that will have english style horn nocks, I guess you first make some small temporary self nocks in the wood to tiller, then after it is tillered you pike the ends just enough to get rid of the wood self nocks and then install the horn nocks. Is this correct or is it typically done differently?

[DEllis]

I just use leather wedges wrapped on with heavy thread(serving works well) as temporary nocks. Wood wedges work too but will scuff up the back of softer woods. The leather ones will not, and are still strong enough I can shoot the bow with them.......up to 75# no problem.
Darcy

[toomanyknots]

I didn't think of something like that at all. You wouldn't have any pictures would you? I'm gonna be making a 90# at 32" mulberry english style bow in about 3 or 4 months, and will be installing horn nocks.

[Pat B]

TMK, The Mary Rose English War Bows has a single side nock under the horn nocks and this was porobably for the temporary tillering nock. These groves were still present even after the horn nocks were put on. On the M R bows the horn nocks had disappeared after being inder water for 500 years.
  You might check on the War Bow thread and get info from the guys there.

[DEllis]

I didn't think of something like that at all. You wouldn't have any pictures would you? I'm gonna be making a 90# at 32" mulberry english style bow in about 3 or 4 months, and will be installing horn nocks.

Here's a quickpic of the basic idea.......leather(or wood) wedge and heavy thread. I only wrapped this one on part way just for the pic.........and yes that is a carpenters pencil not a bow limb
Darcy

[Del the cat]

Yes, you have nocks cut into the wood, but you don't have to cut the end off , you just rasp it down to a taper.
Check out this link to my bowyers diary where I recently did some horn nocks on an ELB.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2011/02/nock-fitting.html
If you look closely at the second picture you can see I've filed a double nock in the wood for tillering and stringing before doing the horn nocks.
Hope this explains it...
Del
P.S If you want to know more about sidenocks (as on the Mary Rose bows), look up Alan Blackham's site the backstreet bowyer, he has a great page on side nocks, hang on, here's a link to it.
http://www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm

[toomanyknots]

Thank you. As usual, everyone on here has been a major help to me. Pat, I never knew the side nocks where still present on the M.R. bows, I always thought that the horn nocks had side nocks in them, I had it all confused. Dellis, thank you for the picture, that helps out alot. I think I will try that out, as it looks like a very good idea! Del the cat, thank you for the link to your demonstration. So what you do is leave the wood a little wide and then just taper it a bit after tillering which gets rid of the temporary nocks?

[Del the cat]

Yes you leave a tiny bit extra wood at the tip* and file in grooves for temporary nocks, once you are all tillered, you rasp away the temporary nock and replace the wood you have removed with horn so in the end the horn tip is only slightly bigger than the wood you started with.
It all makes more sense once you've had a go at doing one.
*You can see in the pics the temporary nocks are big ugly suckers just roughly filed into a big squareish end of the limb.
Del

[toomanyknots]

Alrighty, thank ya d.t.c.!

[DarkSoul]

There's not a single method that you should use. Many people use very different techniques for their horn nocks, all with excellent results.

Here's the process I use myself. I floortiller the stave first. When floortiller looks about good, I fit the horn nocks. When the nocks are applied, I can go to long string tillering or even to short string tillering straight away. But I don't cut temporary nocks in the bow at all. You need to fit the horn nocks any way, so why create temporary nocks at all?

[toomanyknots]

Hmmm, you make a good point dark soul. Before my problem was having no idea what to do. Now my problem is having too many ideas what to do, thanks alot yall! (j/k,  ). At the hundred pounds or so it's gonna be pullin (if I pulled it that far to find out) in order to tiller it and finish it down to 90, I may just put the nocks on after tillering it at far as possible on the short long string. Maybe when it's ready for brace would be a good time to install the horn nocks?

[Del the cat]

You need to fit the horn nocks any way, so why create temporary nocks at all?

Because the limb tip will be much smaller when the bow is finally fully tillered.
Maybe you get closer to final tiller than I do before putting it up on the tiller. My limb tips end up about half the size they were when it first went on the tree.
Also temporary nocks allow you to adust limb length if necessary.
But like you say, we all have our way of doing it....
Del

[Pat B]

I've only made a few ELB style bows with horn nocks but like all the bows I build I leave the tips oversized until the tillering is complete then shape the bow tips to recieve the horn nocks. I use shallow grooves in the side of the tips for temporary nocks. When I do the final shape I use a rasp to shape the tips and this eliminates the side nocks.