Author Topic: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!  (Read 43937 times)

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Offline 1776J

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2010, 11:20:09 pm »
Nice one Eddie, I remember you bailing me out of a situation exactly like this.

"exactly" like this?...
my condolences indeed.

Offline rudderbows

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2010, 04:02:07 pm »
Rudderbows archery has been in business for over 18 years and very seldom we do get an unhappy customer. That is to be expected. All business's experience this at one time or another. We strive to give the very best we can to our customers. Both in customer service and the highest quality products we can.   We have a written policy on our website ( under  the Warranty department) that clearly states that all u-finish bows are only under warranty until the customer puts a tool to this item. After that we cannot warrant another persons work.  You will find that the majority of your companies out there  has the same kind of policy.  If they didn't then any unhappy customer will alter the products and  then expect a full refund. I am sorry but if companies did give those refunds, the bottom line is that they simply wouldn't be in business for very long.

In our defense the unhappy customer did indeed sand the bow down so far that it had severe hinges on both limb tips. The sever hinges are what caused the crack.    Thank you  
                             CEO of Rudderbows Archery


than

Offline Stingray45

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2010, 04:36:44 pm »
Glad someone is helping you out in this matter 1776. I would have thought that glue line would have been more than enough to warrant a new bow, but I guess it depends on who you're working with. Good luck with the BBI.
Is there anything better than wandering the earth with a stick and string in your hand?

Offline El Destructo

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2010, 05:21:55 pm »
Marc....I guess we were both mistaken....He don't care...and won't learn....

OK....let's say that the Rookie did remove too much wood and makes a hinge...that's easy to believe....we have all done this I am sure.... but that does not have diddly squat to do with the fact that this Stave was doomed from the get-go....

This Stave has some major Glue-Up issues...and that Knot running the width of the Limb is a No-Brainer....this Stave should have never made it past Quality Control....and to blame these ISSUES on a Newly Bowyer is asinine....

I believe the only thing that this Gentleman is guilty of is being Naive....and not seeing this piece of.wood for what it was.....Kindling.....He should have never laid a file or sand paper to it...should have sent it straight back....but He didn't know any better....and I am sure that He believed that someone that has been on business for nearly two decades....would never sell a Substandard Bow Stave.

I have had nothing but good dealings with Jim and his crew....but this fiasco will make me think hard and long before I ever deal with him again.....jmo....I could be wrong.
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
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Offline 1776J

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2010, 05:33:35 pm »
Rudderbows archery has been in business for over 18 years and very seldom we do get an unhappy customer. That is to be expected. All business's experience this at one time or another. We strive to give the very best we can to our customers. Both in customer service and the highest quality products we can.   We have a written policy on our website ( under  the Warranty department) that clearly states that all u-finish bows are only under warranty until the customer puts a tool to this item. After that we cannot warrant another persons work.  You will find that the majority of your companies out there  has the same kind of policy.  If they didn't then any unhappy customer will alter the products and  then expect a full refund. I am sorry but if companies did give those refunds, the bottom line is that they simply wouldn't be in business for very long.

In our defense the unhappy customer did indeed sand the bow down so far that it had severe hinges on both limb tips. The sever hinges are what caused the crack.    Thank you  
                             CEO of Rudderbows Archery


than

This makes NO SENSE!

At what point did I cause that crack? 

At what point would I have strung up a bow AFTER the crack showed up??

I told you right off the bat that as I started sanding it down the crack revealed itself. 
So how in the world did I cause the crack? 
Unless the bow was strung and had force put on it, any hinging effects wouldn't do anything to it.  So, even though I never strung the bow after the crack showed itself, its still MY FAULT????

What am I missing here???

I emailed you SEVERAL times about the bow and its issues, which you blew off.  Specifically regarding that crack you told me to put some super glue on it!  Then YOU said yourself several times to just send back the bow for a full refund.  I have your emails, you and I both know what you promised and now you're trying to throw this in my face that I somehow caused the crack?  Well, it is was "hinged" its because you sent it that way,... along with the lousy glue lamination job that beginners on this forum have told me have done a better job doing with their first try!

Everything is fine until someone has a problem with something they bought from you, then you lash out at them and loose your mind.  It doesn't matter what I said, how nice I was to you, how much I praised your work, your sense of self, your beliefs, etc.  You make promises to people that you have ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION OF KEEPING! How could a businessman of 18 years do taht given the circumstances here?
If you truly practiced what you preached, there would have been no issues and you would have given me a refund as you said you would,.... not to mention you would have not given me several nasty, bizarre emails and SCREAMED at me over the phone cutting me off and cursing at me repeatedly!

Anyone doing this should be ashamed of their actions.

I'm taking this up with my credit card company and I'm letting them go after you to get my refund if you refuse to make good on your promise to me to give me a full refund.  I kept trusting that you would be a man of your word, over and over again, even in the face of others telling me to do otherwise,....I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and you are simply blowing me off.
You have emailed me and said you'd refund me obviously under false pretentions, thus by doing so, and having me mail the bow back to you, I believe this constitutes possible mail fraud.  Not something I would have ever thought would come to when first I ordered this bow from you?

In addition your OWN website reads,

"Warranty
Our goal at Rudderbows is to provide top quality products as well as great customer service and satisfaction.For this reason we are proud to offer a factory replacement warranty .
We will warrant all parts and products produced by Rudderbows against any and all manufacturing defects in quality , material , and workmanship , which affect the satisfactory operations of the products in question. This warranty is limited to the repair or replacement of only those parts determined to be faulty or defective by the manufacturer. Any product in question must be returned to Rudderbows for inspection ."


It was a blatant defect in the wood!  Not to mention a defect in the building process by using a piece of wood where the knot runs through the belly from side to side!  It's amazing how SO many competent bowyers on this site, well known gentleman who's work and good reputation preceeds them fully agree with that.  Everyone,...but yourself?  I still cannot understand this?

If things really were as the bowyers says they are this would be a non-issue!  You and I know that. 

Thanks a lot Jim,...
Merry Christmas to you as well!

« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 11:53:57 pm by 1776J »

Offline 1776J

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2010, 05:41:52 pm »
Glad someone is helping you out in this matter 1776. I would have thought that glue line would have been more than enough to warrant a new bow, but I guess it depends on who you're working with. Good luck with the BBI.

I was taught that if you're going to "talk the talk"  you ought to, "walk the walk" ?
You can't say one thing and do another.

Jim's last email to me regarding any refund, etc.  This is Jim's own words,....

"Your manners are nice, Your words lead to dissapointment. Dont you ever bother me again.
Send that bow back for a full refund and never speak to me again."

Thanks and Pray hard !
Jim and Sherry Boswell
http://Rudderbowsarchery.com
509-968-3051






« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 11:43:25 pm by 1776J »

Offline El Destructo

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2010, 05:45:21 pm »
Eeeew.....I can almost hear the Thin Ice cracking now....thread lightly....please....I for one don't want to see this Thread getting pulled....I want to be here for the Fat Lady to  Sing....
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
Think HEALTHCARE Is Expensive Now,Wait Till It's FREE
Do Or Do Not,There Is No TRY
2024...We Will Overcome

Lombard

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2010, 05:46:09 pm »
Two hydrogen atoms meet. One says, "I've lost my electron." The other says "Are you sure?" The first replies, "Yes, I'm positive."

Thought I would try to lighten the dark mood. The transverse knot is bad ju ju on quarter sawn wood. I built a couple Ash bows that had those, and they completely collapsed under stress.

Offline cracker

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2010, 06:00:04 pm »
Eddie
  I got a whole new respect for you.
Ronnie
If we can't help each other what is the point of being here?

Offline John K

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2010, 07:17:31 pm »
 :-X  :-X
The only way to fail is to never start !

Offline medicinewheel

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2010, 04:07:48 am »
@1776J:

My advise would be to let go; the problem is that our energy flows to where our thoughts are so leave him alone. You will not be able to make this guy admit he's wrong, you will not be able to make him realise he talks different than he acts.

You'll get a stave from mullet, and a string from JW, and here on PA you'll get answers to all your questions.
On top of that, I will precut a pair of tip overlays and mail them to you, and I will help you to mount them as good as I can; that is best to do when the tillering is done. So please get in touch with me when you start your bow!
Frank from Germany...

Offline medicinewheel

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2010, 04:10:14 am »

@Jim from Rudderbows:

Sir, I have a question.

Let's say I'd buy such a stave from Rudderbows. It comes in the mail, it looks all nice, I start working on it.
Than, after reducing the edges by working out my design I happen to find a gap in the glueline as the one pictured below, would you than STILL go by the hard and cold rule, and not refund the item because I have worked on it??

Some guys here might be interested to hear your answer!

Frank from Germany...

Offline Stingray45

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2010, 10:54:24 am »
I'm with you medicine wheel. I've immediately scrapped bows and made firewood for better glue lines than that. The thing about this whole mess is for $240 how many potential customers have now been turned off from using this company. Goodluck 1776, make sure you post pics and ask questions during the process, I'm interested to see the bow as you move along. I'm actually going to attempt my first bamboo glue up here pretty soon.
Is there anything better than wandering the earth with a stick and string in your hand?

Offline Jesse

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2010, 01:01:14 pm »
I tried to stay out but my fingers just started typing ;D   I will say that when I dealt with Jim at rudderbows  a few years ago he treated me well. He even sent me a nice hickory board in the mail for free.   I'm surprised to hear this and even more shocked at his response. 
As for the glue line ----its not pretty but thats how he does them. They are deep groves cut before gluing so sometimes you can see that when they run off on the edge. If you go in a tad it will look solid again. This does not mean the glue joint will fail but in my opinion the grooves are too large which can make it ugly and not the way I do mine either.  As for the cracked knot----well in my opinion you should get a refund for that no question.   Come on Jim just send the guy a refund.  I would think this would be worse for business than loosing a couple bucks on a refund.   
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 01:07:52 pm by Jesse »
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Offline Kitsu

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Re: Small fissure crack between two knots, should I be concerned????!!!!
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2010, 02:47:53 pm »
I tried to stay out but my fingers just started typing ;D   I will say that when I dealt with Jim at rudderbows  a few years ago he treated me well. He even sent me a nice hickory board in the mail for free.   I'm surprised to hear this and even more shocked at his response. 
As for the glue line ----its not pretty but thats how he does them. They are deep groves cut before gluing so sometimes you can see that when they run off on the edge. If you go in a tad it will look solid again. This does not mean the glue joint will fail but in my opinion the grooves are too large which can make it ugly and not the way I do mine either.  As for the cracked knot----well in my opinion you should get a refund for that no question.   Come on Jim just send the guy a refund.  I would think this would be worse for business than loosing a couple bucks on a refund.   
yeah, i believe just from the responses, that a refund would REALLY help thier cause... after all, the longer this goes on, the more people will be turned off on their products, i know i am turned off for now, this has gone on too long; I feel queesy from this whole ordeal... its either jim admits the bow was scrapwood to begin with, or he bites his tongue, something needs to be done if he expects to keep a business going,

i am sorry, just my opinion on the matter
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You won't rely on open eyes to see
The walls you build within come tumbling down
And a new world will begin" ----- Queensryche, "Silent Lucidity

R.H , Southeastern PA/Western PA.