1st brace

[Badger]

   Something I still struggle with and see others struggle with all the time, especially when we are making bows outside our comfort zone when it comes to length or draw weight is when to do the first brace, most I know go by the long string weight reading or more often just by feel but I still sometimes brace them too strong or too close to finished weight to leave ample room for tillering.  What methods do you guys us and are you satisfied with them? I find a long string to be not very accurate but helpful, better than nothing. Steve

[tom sawyer]

I don't go by poundage at all.  I just use a long string on a tillering stick until I get a bend that is reasonably smooth and close to the shape of a braced bow.  I go with a short string from that point on.  The first stringing is at around 4" brace and is as short as possible to get a reading on where to go tiller-wise.  Usually don't even need to pull the bow for the first few short-stringings, just quickly judge bend and/or run a credit card along the belly and mark the flat spots.

[Badger]

Lennie, I have noticed that works fine as long as I am working inh an area i am familar, but when I stretch out over 72" and close to 100# or even 80# I am not as good at judging just because it is not my normal bow I am making. A lot of damage is done to bows on the first brace, a lot of guys don't even realize the bow has been damaged but it really can be a critical step in bow making. Steve

[tom sawyer]

I think the only adjustment one would make in using my method for a really heavy bow, would be to pull harder on it to get it on the tillering stick (that and use a really beefy tillering stick).  Otherwise, pulling a bow with a long string to something aroudn brace height equivalent isn't really going to hurt it.  I don't think you are doing a great deal of damage to the bow at a point where you are not bending the bow very far.  And in any case, much of that surface wood is going to come off in the tillering process (if you are far from target weight).  Most set comes from exceeding the elastic compression limits of the belly wood.  Now if all your bend come in just one spot, you can exceed the limit at that spot.  But I'm assuming we're doing some floor tillering and eyeballing the taper before we even bother with a string.

But you are correct, there is definitely a comfort zone for poundage.  I can tiller a bow in the mid-50's without even using a scale.  That seems to be my comfort zone as far as how hard I pull it on the tillering stick, and how I exercise it during final tillering (by hand, no tiler tree).

Luckily for me, I can't pull 100lb and after three hernia surgeries I don't want to try.

[duffontap]

Badger,
I know what you mean.  I've always sensed that the first brace is 'the point of no return.'  Something that as helped me is to compare readings from finished bows that are similar and then use arithmetic to figure out what the weights should be.  If you have a finished bow that is similar to what you want the bow you're building to come out as, you can weigh it with a long string to get an idea of where you should be.  Does that make sense?  I'm trying to figure this stuff out too. 

I think Jim Hamm's chapter of tillering is better than just about everything else out there, but he fails to point out that a bow that is braced too early is going to lose some spring.  He seems to advocate stringing as soon as you can--even when the bow will pull full weight at 12" of draw.  To me, that's bow abuse.  If you want a finished bow of 50# @ 28" and when you brace it, it's drawing 50# @ 12", you are way over-straining your bow.  Ideally, a bow shouldn't be stressed past it's intended finished draw weight (as Jim says) or past it's intended finished draw weight for every inch of draw.  In the perfect world scenario, if my finished 135# warbow is going to draw 15# @ 2", I wouldn't want to ever push it past that while tillering.  Now, does that make sense!  According to my reading of the Hamm method (which again, I think was revolutionary) I could string it at a point where it's drawing 135# @ 2" then remove some wood so I could get it to 135# @ 3" and so-forth. 

                J. D. Duff

PS:  I like to see my bows take a little extra set after I've used them for a couple days.  To me, this means that my tillering was even more gentle than it needed to be.  Am I right on that?

[George Tsoukalas]

I long string tiller out to 10 inches. I check weight. When I get good limb movement and target weight or 5# over I string it with the short string. This  puts the stave's final potential target weight at 10-15 # over. Plenty of tillering room. It's actually  a pretty easy method. LOL. It really does work. I really don't know why everyone doesn't use it or at  least try it. May be it's just too easy to use. I really am perplexed. Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

If your stave is reflexed by 2 inches long string tiller out to 12 in. I draw 26 in. If you draw 28 long string tiller out to 12. I've made about 150 bows total. 125 with this method. It took me 25 to learn and develop it. "I'm going to get the limbs bending and then string it method" may work ok with osage but it just doesn't make sense to string a 100# stave when you want 50 # at least not with a whitewood. I learned that quickly enough in my early days upon breaking bows at their first bracing.  Anyway, to each his own. Jawge

[duffontap]

I have to admit, that does sound pretty easy.

             J. D. Duff

[Badger]

        I imagine the long string method has to be the best. I do so much by feel I have to force myself to use the long string when I need it. Last several months I have been building all lengths and draw weights and my sense of feel has gone to put from changing bow types so often. Ideally I like my bow at full draw weight at around 21" when I first brace it, 24' or 25" is a little too close for comfort. I do my first brace at a low brace around 4". JD, Once I get it braced I draw it full draw weight every time I excersize it if the tiller is on regardless of the length I am pulling it, doesn't seem to affect it.  Steve

[yellow feather]

I don't quite understand , that if you have tillered with a long string and it is bending out more than brace height, what diff. does it make when you brace it. Am I missing something here? I'm a real newbie
                                                                     David

[George Tsoukalas]

David, bracing a stave puts a lot off stress on it. It makes sense if  you want 50# to only brace a 60-65# stave rather than a 80# stave. Experienced bowyers can sense and evaluate the weight by feel. I've always done it the way i described or at least for the past 125  bows. LOL.Jawge

[duffontap]

Most of the time I'm building hunting-weight bows for myself and the weight they come out at doesn't really matter to me as long as it's within my preferred range.  I'm usually shooting for the highest reasonable weight from a particular stave, so I'm aiming for 60-80# and I can feel those weights well enough.  Like Badger, my problem is really with very heavy bows where explosions are a real danger and staves can be damaged easily with the high stresses they're under.  I'm going to try to learn this long string method.

             J. D. Duff

[tom sawyer]

David, I think you made a fairly legitimate observation.  If the bow bends SMOOTHLY to the equivalent of brace height using a long string, then you can short-string it for a short time at a fairly low brace and there is not a lot of difference in stress between that and bending with the long string.  Although, the short string puts more stress on the outer limbs so be aware that a bow that looks a bit stiff in the outer limbs is going to show more bend with the short string.  But if anything that is more of a reason to go to the short string as soon as you can.

I think Jawge's method works better for new bowyers, and after all they his target audience.  Thats because they tend to not know what is meant by a smooth bend or how to gauge it, or they aren't able to get there as easily with the limited knowledge of the use of tools.  If you short-string a bow that isn't yet bending smoothly, you can indeed to some irreversible damage.  Been there, done that.  By sticking with the long string longer, you are essentially babying the bow a little more since you don't leave it bent very long compared to a continuous stress of being braced.  Even when I first brace a bow, I don't leave it braced any longer than necessary to run a straightedge down the belly and mark the flat spots.

The disadvantage of sticking with the long string longer, is that like I said you are going to see a different bend when you do string it, and you have less wood left to make adjustments.  So I think there is more likelihood of missing weight.  But a slightly weaker bow is certianly preferable to a bow with 4" of set or a broken bow.

[George Tsoukalas]

Tom Sawyer, your point about different stresses with the short vs the long is good if long stringing is done for a greater distance but again long  stringing it to 10 inches really isn't much. LOL. Nothing wrong about babying the infant stave. Cuts down on set. I've used this method for years because it works and is logical giving an empirical way to determine a stave's readiness to be strung. Veterans can use it too.I really didn't develop it for beginners.  I developed it for me though I used to be a beginner.  Jawge

[Badger]

    Tom, you would be surprised at how much a too heavy first brace can affect the outcome of a bow, I got into a bad habit of doing everything by feel. But I think the long string is a far safer way to minimise the stresses on the wood. Like you said though, if it is familair territory you can pretty much build a bow without a scale, I do that fairly often. A 72" bow has a totally different feel than a 60" bow, when floor tillering. Very hard to gage by feel when you are switching around a lot especially with different types and weights of bows. Steve