Dimensions of Modoc bows?

[D. Tiller]

Ok! I'm going to make a Modoc style bow that Steve Allely showed me at Glass Buttes. Unfortunatly I do not know what the dimensions of these bows are typicaly. I know they are sinew backed pyramid styles with pin knocks but besides that have no idea. Anyone know what the dimensions are?

David T.

[juniper junkie]

David, you really got the bug! do you have the traditional bowyers bibles? they have some dimensions in there. I have the dimensions on the bow that had the incising on the belly.: 48"L 1.75" at riser fadeouts to 2.25" 5" prior to limb end where it shoulders down to 1.5". the other flat bow was: 40"L 1.5 at the handle tapering to 2.5" mid limb then tapering to 1" in the recurves. remember they were really thin. I enjoyed sharing camp with you and billy.  look forward to seeing the pics of your bows...probably next week with the amount of enthusiasm you have for these short bows. LOL.

[D. Tiller]

Yeah! Had a blast. Thanks for showing me your bow collection. Now you just got to get it all up on your wall and displayed and you will be all set. 

Thanks for the dimensions on the bows. Though I think I want to start with the same designs you and Billy made of your bows. I think those are Modoc designs. Do you have the demensions on those? First Modoc and then the one that is the widest mid limb design. Just picked up some Ash and some hardrock maple over at Edensaw Hardwoods. Unfortunatly the were all out of the Yew wood. All they had available was some really knoty and ratty stuff. No good arrow making material there. They did have some Tigerwood planks available at a $1.50 square foot. Think it may be really dense stuff but dont know.

Say, how thick were those bows at the handle that you and Billy were shooting?

David T

[D. Tiller]

Anyone? Help???

[YewArcher]

Thes bows are typicaly 42-44" long. They can vary allot in width of limb. This is an Achumawi replica that is 39" long. It is 1.5" wide at mid limb 1" at the grip and 7/8" at the tips. I am rembering here as the bow is not right in front of me nor do I have the book that I replicated it from. This means that on this bow it is widest at mid limb. it then tapers to the grip and the tips. Tough bow to tiller.

I know its not exactly the modock but it is close and will hopefully give you at least a start:









They do not have pin nocks per say though. They are called bent tab nocks. They are the wood bent up so that string does not slip. Slight recurve as well.

I hope this will help a little. When i get home I will post some exact Modock diminsions if know one does between now and then.

SJM

[D. Tiller]

Thanks for the info! Looking forward to the Modoc deminsions. I like the ones you posted too but as you say they are tough to tiller. So, I think I will start out with the Modoc design and then go to the other ones. I think the Modoc were arround 50 some odd inches in length but dont know for sure. I think these bow designs must have been the perfect ambush bow for hunting with at short ranges no more than 30 yards or so. Short, quick little bows meant to be used in small spaces and very easy to transport. Who really neads more since most shots are taken under 25 yards? Only problem I will have is keeping the sinew dry here in the pacific northwest. Rains all the time.

[YewArcher]

Ya man, These are serious hunting weapons. I am very acurate 20 yards with a 24": draw. I shoot compound arrows (cane and dogwood) with trade points out of these bows. The arrow are about 425gr. I like the long arrow short draw. Glad to see another wanting to make the. Not a whole lot of people interested in them. Trad Bowyers Bible vol. 1 has a whole section on these west coast bows. Thats how I started makieng them. I have a Yew one in the works right now that will be just about 100% authentic. I have been practicing with osage cause like I said...its hard enough to tiller shuch a short bow....buit the achumawi is a real bear because of the ling layout. I believe the Modock is more forgiving. i will post more when i get home.

Here is a Hupa that I mafe for my borther. he hunts with it as well. Similar style bow



SJM

[D. Tiller]

Nice! Is the Hupa sinew backed? Think I may have to find some yew wood or vine maple to make a bow from this region if I want to hunt with a simmilar bow on rainy days. My hands are itching to start working on the wood I picked up.

By the way where did you find your yew wood? I would like to get ahold of some myself.

David T.

[tomm]

D Tiller vine maple makes a good short bow the one I was using at Joe's last summer was vine maple 42" tip to tip about 70# at 22" had two layers of sinew on the back tomm

[YewArcher]

Dave yes that bos is sinew backed, painted. My brother gave up his fiberglass recurve to start using that bow. I get my yew where ever I can find it. I have a freind on the west coast, Ebay etc...I love it!

Argggggg....I thought that the TBB1 had Mocock dimintion. It does not. But loking at thes ebiws enough If i wher going for a modock I would base it off of the Nootka bow diminsions. This bow looks very close in porpotion to the Modock diagram.

Handel = 1 1/2" wide  13/16" thick

Fade = 2 3/16" wide - 5/8" thick

tip = 1" wide 13/32" thick

lenght = 46"

That should get you close to the bow. After making several of these I have come to the same conclusion that Steve A points out on the TBB1. Make the a bot longer for evryday use. The Original Achumawi bow (My favorite and the one that I keep making) is 43 1/2". I have made them that diminion I have made them 38". and a few inbeteeen. The exact copy I am amking is correct. The next one I make will be closer to 48". I am 6' and have a draw of 32" if I extend. I am finding that short drawing for me is comfortable at around 25". So take that into consideration when laying this bow out too.

Hope that all helps. Cant wait to see your progress. What wood are you uing?

SJM

[D. Tiller]

Thanks! I will be starting on the bow in the next few days. Steve Allely told me to first tiller it before putting on the sinew backing to only 1/4 draw and then apply the sinew and finnish tillering after the sinew is dry. Did you string up the bow in reverse before applying the sinew to get extra reflex in the limbs as the sinew dried? Think this could add a lot of cast to the bow. And on top of all this how long did you allow the sinew to dry before final tillering?

Also, how many tendons did you nead to sinew up the Hupa bow? I think I may have enough but just in case I may need to order up some more.

I will try to post a bunch of updates on making the Modoc style bow.

PS: Is there anyway to water proof the sinew backing? I will be hunting in Pacific Coast conditions a lot and that means RAIN the dreaded word for sinew backed bows!

[sonny]

there's likely no way of waterproofing a bow...more accurately you need to make it water resistant.
bear in mind that Jay Massey used sinew backed bows while hunting in bad weather in Alaska. you may want to do some research on what he used as a finish on his bows.
I know one of his favorite we now refer to as "Massey Finish" is two part epoxy thinned with acetone,,though not primitive it's worth consideration if you'll encounter rain.

hope this helps.
   

[YewArcher]

This is how I make them:

1. rough out the bow

2. Tiller to about 10"

3. Bend the tab nocks via a kerf cut

4. Heat in reflex

5. Recurve the tips

6. Sinew the bow. I am not sure hw many tendons it takes as I pound out like 20 at a time and just keep a back stock of sinew at the ready. I have buckets of it shreded and ready to go. I let the sinew dry for 2 weeks. I use true oil over sinew that I will be huntng with. I leave the bows that are more replica in nature with no finish at all. I suppose one day I wil animal fat them. I also use Knox. It is much more pleaenat to work with then hide glue. Knox is after all a more refined A+ quality hide glue.

This is how I do the sinew curing:
This helps induce the backset.

SJM

[D. Tiller]

Thanks for the help! That epoxy recipies sounds like it might work. I will check into it.

David T.

[D. Tiller]

Boy oh boy those are some nice staves in the background there. Thanks for showing me your set up for the back setting of the bow. May have to rig up something like that myself.

David T