Cymru style ash bow ideas?

[ilcoalminer]

hello, i read some great books called The King Raven Trilogy, by Stephen R. Lawhead, is a series of historical novels based on the Robin Hood legend. Lawhead relocates Robin Hood from Sherwood Forest in Nottingham  to Wales, and sets the story in the late eleventh century, shortly after the Battle of Hastings to coincide with the Norman conquest of the Cymru people

In the book the lead character built himself a self bow out of ash and i'm wanting to recreate this bow to give to Mr. Lawhead as a thank you for writing such good books and for turning me into a bowyer!  so i'm wanting to know about bow designs from this period and this location.  thanks for all your time and advice it is much appreciated.

[Knocker]

I don't know anything about that style of bow, but the books sound interesting so I am going to give the first one a try...

Keith

[ilcoalminer]

ok i found some great info on height of the bow at around 70 inchs nock to nock but not sure on the shape of the bow. i would think a simple D shape but i'm not sure

[KenH]

D cross-section or "bend through the handle" D?  Apparently there are no extant historic or pre-historic Welsh bows.    I'd be tempted to make something 65 or so long, D'-ish in cross-section...

[ilcoalminer]

thanks for the info this yank dont know to much about warbows!  but i suggest the books they are a good read!

[Story Teller]

ilcoalminer,

I've read a fair amount on medieval warfare and weapons, but don't have anything on the Welsh.  However, there is a very nice instructional for building an English longbow in the Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Volume One, Editor Jim Hamm, The Lyons Press, 2000.  A friend of mine had an English-style Longbow replica made from ash at one time.  I believe it performed well, though it did appear to me to take a little more set than another Oregon yew bow I saw of similar dimensions.  Also, the Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Volume Two has a chapter devoted to other ancient European bow designs.  The only reference I can find in my small library for primitive bows made of ash describes native American bows.  Those made of ash were 5-6 feet in length and drew 60-80 pounds.  They were flat-bellied rather than the typical round-bellied English longbow, so you might take that into account if performance is a concern in this project.  Anyway, these clues suggest to me that if you were to assume that a Welsh bowyer knew his stuff and how best to make ash perform, it would be a longer bow, perhaps very similar or identical to the English Longbow, unless you made the belly flat instead of round because of the choice of wood.

Anyway, that is the best I have to offer.  I'm an amateur and, ironically, the only bows I have built using ash have been children's bows for my son and some of his friends.

[ilcoalminer]

thanks for taking the time to do all of that story teller, i'd like to pick up the copy's of the bowyers bible but haven't had the cash flow as of yet.  i knew ash wouldn't be quit the performer yew is but i'm going for a rebuild of the bow the author tried to convey but there was just no info on the design of the bow.  i'm sure during that time they were building bows very similar to if not identical english style long bow since they are on the same island and came from similar groups of people.  i'm wanting to build a bow as close to historically accurate and also by going by the little information in books had to offer on the bow.  i plan to build it shoot it a few times and ship it off to the author as tribute to getting me into building bows in the first place, if it goes well i'll be making one for myself not soon after i'm sure but probably out of yew cuz i want a performer

[bow-toxo]

hello, i read some great books called The King Raven Trilogy, by Stephen R. Lawhead, is a series of historical novels based on the Robin Hood legend. Lawhead relocates Robin Hood from Sherwood Forest in Nottingham  to Wales, and sets the story in the late eleventh century, shortly after the Battle of Hastings to coincide with the Norman conquest of the Cymru people

In the book the lead character built himself a self bow out of ash and i'm wanting to recreate this bow to give to Mr. Lawhead as a thank you for writing such good books and for turning me into a bowyer!  so i'm wanting to know about bow designs from this period and this location.  thanks for all your time and advice it is much appreciated.

 Poor Robin Hood. Moved to Wales after Hastings and fighting a French invasion in Russel Crowe's new movie. Concerning Welsh bows, the only information I have found is the word of Gerald of Wales that their bows were of forest elm. Nothing about length, length of arrows, or cross section. So you can feel free to make it any way you choose, and no one can say you are wrong.

[Knocker]

I just read the first of the King Raven series, and the main character (Bran) did make his bow from ash, but also stated that Yew was better...  Not sure how well researched this trilogy is, but in the appendix, there were some references stating that the Engllish longbow originated with the Cymru.  The author is quoting history stating that the Cymru longbow was so effective that the entire British Isles later adopted it.  I wonder if Ridley Scott read this series (or at least his writers) as the Robin Hood is also fighting the French...  I am not taking a side on any of this, but am enjoying the resurgence in archery interest amongst the masses.

Keith

[bow-toxo]

  Not sure how well researched this trilogy is, but in the appendix, there were some references stating that the Engllish longbow originated with the Cymru.  The author is quoting history stating that the Cymru longbow was so effective that the entire British Isles later adopted it.  I wonder if Ridley Scott read this series (or at least his writers) as the Robin Hood is also fighting the French...  I am not taking a side on any of this, but am enjoying the resurgence in archery interest amongst the masses.

Keith

I am also enjoying the resurgeance of archery, especially by people that make an attempt to re-create the archery of the Middle Ages. It gives me people to talk to. I am curious how the references were able to ignore the fact that longbows were around since the Stone Age and there were plenty of Saxon ones found in the Danish bogs before the Cymru existed. When Henry I was hit in the chest by a Welsh arrow, his first comment was that it must have been from an English bow. I should get a copy of the book and check the references.

                                                                                                                                                                         Erik

[mole]

I read and enjoyed the first two books, but haven't had time to request and read the third.  I don't remember much about the description of the bow and its use.  I just remember my opinion as being that the author needed to do more research on the matter.

[PaulN/KS]

OK, correct me as you will but, after the Saxons invaded and settled most of England were not the English pushed into the region now refered to as Wales...? I recall that "Wales" or "Welsh" was a Saxon term for "strangers"... or something like that?

So, would not a Welsh warbow then be an English warbow in the earlier development stage...?

[bow-toxo]

OK, correct me as you will but, after the Saxons invaded and settled most of England were not the English pushed into the region now refered to as Wales...? I recall that "Wales" or "Welsh" was a Saxon term for "strangers"... or something like that?

So, would not a Welsh warbow then be an English warbow in the earlier development stage...?

 Corrrecting you----After the Angles. Saxons, and Jutes settled in England, the British [ the English were descended from the ones coming in} who did not flee as refugees to Brittany, were pushed into the less hospitable areas like the Cornish penninsula and the western mountains, now Wales. "Welsh" was indeed a Saxon word meaning "foreigners" and the word was applied to the British Cymry  people. Since we have so little information on Welsh bows, and longbows were already thoroughly developed and very well known to the invaders [see Nydam Bog}, the Welsh can hardly get a patent on an invention already three thousand years old.

[PaulN/KS]

OK, correct me as you will but, after the Saxons invaded and settled most of England were not the English pushed into the region now refered to as Wales...? I recall that "Wales" or "Welsh" was a Saxon term for "strangers"... or something like that?

So, would not a Welsh warbow then be an English warbow in the earlier development stage...?

 Corrrecting you----After the Angles. Saxons, and Jutes settled in England, the British [ the English were descended from the ones coming in} who did not flee as refugees to Brittany, were pushed into the less hospitable areas like the Cornish penninsula and the western mountains, now Wales. "Welsh" was indeed a Saxon word meaning "foreigners" and the word was applied to the British Cymry  people. Since we have so little information on Welsh bows, and longbows were already thoroughly developed and very well known to the invaders [see Nydam Bog}, the Welsh can hardly get a patent on an invention already three thousand years old.

And I thank you for the information...