Crossbow (pics)

[wolfsire]

Dane, I would be affraid to play with that!

I would not doubt that you have seen it, but as you brought up mobile artillery, Oskar's Dragon/Galloper is one of the coolest crossbows I've ever seen.  About a third of the way down the page:  http://sg.sca.org.nz/siege.htm

[Dane]

Hi, Wolf. The ballista is a bit intimidating, but it is very well engineered.

Some interesting ideas on the SCA pages. They never shoot lethal ammunition, do they? That is what makes it the most fun!

[sagitarius boemoru]

Alex, they can be made both with wooden core or just horn and sinew. Th horn/sinew is quite well known because of those pictures of sawn off piece on internet.

Dane, did you read Josephus Flavius? They found some stone balls in weoght around 70 kg around Jerusalem. That wont be nothing special with a trebuchet, but the romans shot these with torsion machines. These must have been gigantic indeed.


Jaro

[Dane]

Jaro, I'm looking at a photo of some stone balls at Pergamon, ranging up to 75 kg. Those machines must have been awesome! If I was wealthy...guess what I would be building?

[sagitarius boemoru]

Came to my mind that I made two skane lockbows while ago. This is without notches cut in, but the lever assemblies are there.





Jaro

[Warhammer1]

HI Dane. Been a lurker for some time and am always searching for new info. on ballistas and manuballistas.  have followed your work for a few years off and on.
I am a ballista builder, but use modern materials which I think is a no-no here in primitive archery land. One site you will find most interesting in my online friend Nicks Orsova inswinger "Firefly" which he recently had up to 401fps. He has been doing a bunch of penetration tests using concrete and 1/4 inch steel plate. The ballista won. He managed to beat me to the 400fps mark, so now my goal is to beat that with a 500fps manuballista, a re-worked modern crossbow based on the Scorpion which I have converted to torsion power.

I also have an inswinger manuballista bow, and slingshot - all my weaponry is spring powered. I hope to start my own little manuballista manufacturing company someday soon using ordinary modern crossbows as a starting point and adding on a ballista bolt on kit. This would  be great for older crossbows whose parts are no longer available (limbs, strings, etc.). Its rather expensive to chop up perfectly good crossbows - especially the scorpyd crossbow!

Anyway, thought I'd finally say Hi. Check out NIcks Orsova inswinger ballista, with 60 inch draw, 5000lbs of pull, and shooting 7000 - 8000 grain durabolts:
www.wattsunique.com and my blog: http://warhammer1.wordpress.com/


Thanks for mention of in-swingers. Nick and I are interested in performance of these machines, and coaxing ever more speed and power from the design(s).

Warhammer1

Suspicous eh? She is a bit of a devil sometimes.

Keep in mind that ballista is about the smallest example of that kind of stone throwing machine. And it is so well balanced, you only have to hold the winch end up with one three fingers to rotate and elevate it on it's stand. No metal fastenings at all - all motised and interlocking components to hold it all together.

This machine is still new, and still undegoing trials - this was her 3rd or 4th firing session. We had only one turn on the two springs, and on the second shot, it split the top left timber in three places, and bent the iron plate the washer is on! Fred made those by laminating ash vertically, and we learned you need solid timber there, so he found some 5" stock and is replacing them. Truly a learning experience.

The inswingers are the apex of these kinds of machines. Even the wooden Hatra machine would perform maginifcently, I suspect, as it is an inswinger. Funny how the torsion machines dissapeared quite quickly as the Roman empire dissolved. After getting to know such kinds of torsion machines, tribochets aren't nearly as cool to me.

You are right about the accuracy of those things, wooden and metal framed. A legion woud field perhaps 60 arrow firing machines, and if you can fire 3 to 4 bolts per minute, that is murderious fire. I can hardly wait to get my full sized Scropio finished, and do some indepth testing with her. Anoteh rmember of our legion is building a metal framed inswinger, so we will find out a bit about those as well. In fact, it will be cart mounted, and we will arrange to get a team of mules to field with it.

Dane

[Dane]

Warhammer, I see you post occasionally on RAT, and did check out your site / blog last night, but it was more than a bit confusing. And, you blog seems dead.

You are probably correct in that your use of modern materials is not in keeping with Primitive Archer.

That being said, do you have any examples of your work you can post? Or do you consider what you do proprietary? I haven’t seen any of your work here or anywhere else, even though you pop up once in a while. Be aware that since you have a commercial site, or are starting a company?, you can’t link to your company since you are not a paid advertiser with PA. Individual machines, though, I think would be okay, but check with the moderators first.

I am very familiar with Nick Watt’s work. Are you actually working with him on his in swinger? If so, in what capacity? You do sound like you are collaborating directly with him.

I dont want to sound harsh, but don't post any of my own comments or photos you have found here or on RAT on your site or any site associated with you.

Thanks,

Dane

[Warhammer1]

Hi Dane. Yeah, your right my blogs kinda dead, but thats okay its more for myself anyhow.  I'll probly post a pic or two of the Scorpyd conversion but it would be like Aitors or Nicks machine in that it would be a basic inswinger design with no pulleys or compound design.

As far as Nick and collaborating with him, he said he wouldnt mind trying some of my suggestions here and there which some he has, and has also just recently hit his goal of 400fps using a much heavier bolt and using less than 90 degrees of rotation.  He will be trying a shorter set of limbs in the future, and Im going to try and get him to try a new limb I designed for his machine. At least he now likes the "harpoons" I got him to try out and the KE seems to impress him. He has a lot of his own experiments he wants to try, and is kinda sticky to sticking to only what could be done in ancient times.

My work is mostly all experimental and geared towards higher velocities, so my machines are set up a little different than the accepted norm. Hopefully I will be able to show my design(s) or useage of the machines capabilities to be more effecient. No matter the outcome though, I will sure have one of the most interesting Scorpyds around, and will have had a lot of fun building and testing it.

Good luck with your builds and hope to see them on youtube!

Warhammer1