hickory lam. bow /raised @ the handle

[Minuteman]

OK i'm starting on a laminated hikree backed hikree bow to get the kinks worked out of my laminated bow making technique or lack thereof.Wanna work out my gluing and  clamping process before I start using the real purdy stuff!
 What I've got as a test bow is 2 slats 66" long, one being roughly 5/16" and the other 1/8". Figger on reflexing the outer third of the tip into a mild curve maybe 2 inches ahead of the handle er so.
 ?#1--What I'm wonderin ( and I think I know the answer ) is  do you have to have a raised  section on the belly side of the belly slat to keep the laminated handle from popping off? Right now its flat.
 I'm thinking that I'll drill two 1/4" holes through the whole handle , where the handle wrap will be and set osage dowels in epoxy to keep it all together . Could that work?
 My elbow has been killing me lately so I'm trying to figure out a way to make a bow with out making it worse. Jobs hard enough on it.
 Chris
 

[Ryano]

Yes, that would work but you could achieve the same thing by working the fade down into the limb after glue up and before tillering...

[Minuteman]

Thought about that Ryan O'. Thing is its a mighty thin limb as it stands before taking it down .Don't know what weight I'll hit . I guess I could always glue another slat on the back or belly to gain a little more weight, huh?
 This whoel laminated bow thing doesn't feel natural to me ... sure is a lot less work though.

[Justin Snyder]

Put a power lamination in that is just longer than the handle will be. That will help stop the bow from bending in the handle area and take some of the stress of the glued on riser joint.  Justin

[DCM]

If I am reading you right, 5/16" + 1/8" ain't enough to make a bow.  That's 7/16" total.  That might be enough for a light bow if wide, but you'll need to make the handle lams 14" or so and build up to at least 1 1/4" deep in the handle.  Unless you can abide an unusually wide and flat handle.  How wide are the lams?

[Minuteman]

Hey Mims.
 Yeah the lams are 2" wide right at the handle. They taper to 1/2" at the tips in straight lines. I'm thinking it might be less than 50# but thats ok. Like I said before I'm trying to get my kinks worked out so I can make a couple to hunt with this fall. The handle comes out to 1 1/2 " total ,back to belly to give a little raspin' room for handle shaping.Its gonna be series of black walnut and hikree lams, each  3/8" thick roughly .

 Built a form this afternoon. Its 72" long, the middle 24"  is straight then it curves down to 3 inches of reflex, if it were a 72" bow. At 66" its gonna be less then 3" prolly more like 2 & a little bit.( Built it long for my hik backed cherry ALB)
 How much draw weight does the reflex add? Some where I think I read 10 pounds per inch of reflex? May be remembering that wrong.Straighten me out!
 How much working  limb do you need for a 28" draw? I mean if I get the limb working right at the fades how much limb do I need ?
 You've seen Marc's bows with those super short fades straight to the limb in very little length. Some of 'em look like they make the transition from full depth handle to full width  limb in less than an inch! Thats kinda what I'm shootin' for.
 Any ideas are welcome. I know very little bout this laminated bow business.
 Chris
 

[DCM]

Me neither Chris but you sound like you are on track.  I don't generally do abupt fades.  For a 2" bow it would need to be pretty aggressive.  I tend to use some width taper to achieve the same effect, letting it work into the fades.  Don't forget fades and handle will flex, ever so slightly.  I think at 2" you get get over 50#.  Not sure how the ratio, fairly steep backing to belly will play out.  You'll want the wide wood to work, the relfex on the outer limb will help you there.

[Minuteman]

What about the reflex? How much weight does an inch of reflex add to the bow? Generally speaking...
 Anybody experienced a marked difference between hickory heartwood and the sapwood?
 Chris.

[Marc St Louis]

Chris
Just put a 1/8" thick lam between the backing and the core that extends to the end of the handle or just past

[Pat B]

Hickory heartwood seem to be a bit more brittle than the sapwood. I haven't used much heardwood  so this is what I have heard and not from experience.   Pat

[Justin Snyder]

Chris, here is the lamination Marc is talking about. I have never had a failure at the handle area on a bow with this lamination. Reflexing will add weight, but its hard to say how much. It varies with each piece of wood.  I would glue it up with some perry reflex, but I think with that thickness you will be well over 50#.  Justin

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[Minuteman]

Well here's the update 
 The smooth on held and I've been fussin' over the glue up for awhile now. Its been on the tree a coupla times. The extra lam in the handle is holding things together just fine.The reflexed tips are perplexing me. Got some walnut tip overlays on and rasped to rough shape.
  Trying to figger out how to tiller with a random orbit sander. Got tendinitis in my elbow.... stinks...
 This is the first bow in a long time I've made with a shorter lower limb.
 How much difference in limb length is normal? I've got about 1 1/4" more limb in the upper one.
 I'll post some pics soon, after I get some more limb movement in it.
 Chris
 

[Minuteman]

Well I wish I'd really looked at the pics Justin provided . ???I'm on dial up so I frequently  don't wait for pics to dribble onto the monitor, takes too long.
 I thought the "power" lam went on the belly side. Thats where I put it and it SEEMS to be working. I actually let the pics come up this morning and saw what ya'll were talking about.
 The bow is still together and its been tillered as well as I can do. Wasn't really much tillerin to do with the limbs bein pyramid style and all. Just had to remove a littl efrom one limb toeven things up a bit.
 I may do the drill and dowel the handle thing just for insurance.I'll try to get my wife to teach me how to post pics soon.

[Minuteman]

I may just be too impatient for this bow making stuff.
 Bows aren't suppoed to make tik noises right?

[Pat B]

Can you isolate where the tik is coming from. Maybe you could catch it before it gets too bad. Sometimes a simple wrap can be the remedy.   Pat