trad versus primitive

[Traxx]

Once again we are thinking material.
Thats not the only point for many either.Method of construction is a point as well.Severall of these "Traditional" bows are made by methods and materials that are 10 yrs old or less.Cant really call that Traditional,by its true definition now can we?For that matter,can we really call a Primitive bow,"Primitive",if its made with modern material and by modern methods?Example=A selfbow,made with store bought lumber,fashioned with modern electrical power tools and finished with modern chemical based finishes.Pretty Neo Primitive,if ya ask me.I know this topic has been beaten to death through the years,on these sites.Hence the semi comical sarcasm of my previous post.I do feel that lables have been thrown around recklessly over the last few years leading to some confusion though.I have had some reservation about the term Primitive,due to the negative conotations associated by many,toward the term,this day n age.My take on the definitions,for what its worth,is this...Primitive bows are by the true definition,Traditional.Traditional bows as they are called,really fall under the definition of Modern or Contemporary Long bows and recurves.The other modern bows,well,i dont consider them bows at all,by the true definition of a Bow.LOL.It really doesnt matter all that much though,if ya really think about it.As long as your havein fun with what your doing,then lables be damned.

[Kegan]

Once again we are thinking material.
Thats not the only point for many either.Method of construction is a point as well.Severall of these "Traditional" bows are made by methods and materials that are 10 yrs old or less.Cant really call that Traditional,by its true definition now can we?For that matter,can we really call a Primitive bow,"Primitive",if its made with modern material and by modern methods?Example=A selfbow,made with store bought lumber,fashioned with modern electrical power tools and finished with modern chemical based finishes.Pretty Neo Primitive,if ya ask me.I know this topic has been beaten to death through the years,on these sites.Hence the semi comical sarcasm of my previous post.I do feel that lables have been thrown around recklessly over the last few years leading to some confusion though.I have had some reservation about the term Primitive,due to the negative conotations associated by many,toward the term,this day n age.My take on the definitions,for what its worth,is this...Primitive bows are by the true definition,Traditional.Traditional bows as they are called,really fall under the definition of Modern or Contemporary Long bows and recurves.The other modern bows,well,i dont consider them bows at all,by the true definition of a Bow.LOL.It really doesnt matter all that much though,if ya really think about it.As long as your havein fun with what your doing,then lables be damned.

You make a good point. Truth be told, I don't care what it is... archery is archery. I'm a fan no matter what.

[recurve shooter]

i agree kegan, as long as it aint a compound, i like it!

[Justin Snyder]

Once again we are thinking material.
Thats not the only point for many either.Method of construction is a point as well.Severall of these "Traditional" bows are made by methods and materials that are 10 yrs old or less.Cant really call that Traditional,by its true definition now can we?For that matter,can we really call a Primitive bow,"Primitive",if its made with modern material and by modern methods?Example=A selfbow,made with store bought lumber,fashioned with modern electrical power tools and finished with modern chemical based finishes.Pretty Neo Primitive,if ya ask me.I know this topic has been beaten to death through the years,on these sites.Hence the semi comical sarcasm of my previous post.I do feel that lables have been thrown around recklessly over the last few years leading to some confusion though.I have had some reservation about the term Primitive,due to the negative conotations associated by many,toward the term,this day n age.My take on the definitions,for what its worth,is this...Primitive bows are by the true definition,Traditional.Traditional bows as they are called,really fall under the definition of Modern or Contemporary Long bows and recurves.The other modern bows,well,i dont consider them bows at all,by the true definition of a Bow.LOL.It really doesnt matter all that much though,if ya really think about it.As long as your havein fun with what your doing,then lables be damned.

[Kegan]

i agree kegan, as long as it aint a compound, i like it!

Naw, if a compounder will put up with my sticks I'll put up with his wheels !

[El Destructo]

Naw, if a compounder will put up with my sticks I'll put up with his wheels !

I am with you there too...I enjoy all Phases of Archery...but the more Simple it is....the less Chances of something going wrong with the Equipment...thats my Outlook on it.....

[riarcher]

"Traditional" has always been a fun topic.
I've seen some severly heated debates on this in the past. Even been in some. 
I do think centershot helps. Had a Osage character bow that pretty much placed the arrow on the centerline of the limb tips and it shot like the arrows had a homing system in them (well, sorta). It was sweet.

Anyways, I've an old Martin round wheel compound that I shoot barebow with from time to time.
I shoot it off a homemade shelf.

One time at the range, not too long ago, a couple guys standing behind me were talking.
I overheard one say to the other, "Look at that guy shooting a old Traditional Compound!"
Had to stop and see what they were refering to. 

I guess "Traditional" is like beauty? In the eye of the beholder. 

[Kegan]

Archery is so neat you just can't help yourself from embracing the numerous branches of it. Not that I'd ever see the sense paying oodles of money for a bow when I can just build my own- especially since I get bored and distracted so easily .

[Steve Cover]

Very interesting discussion.

One other aspect that I didn't see offered, it the length of time the person making the determination has been in archery.

To and old duff like me (I've been shooting archery since 1951)  Fiberglass Laminates and Aluminum bows are the threshold of "New fangled".

I grew in archery that used different vernacular and considered the wooden long bow as traditional (real) archery.

Therefore, to me Primitive would include the bows of the type made by Native Americans of the 1800s and earlier.

You also can't define a bow by its efficiency.  Some of the Turkish Horn bows were very efficient. Would you call them Traditional or Primitive???  Lots of gray areas here.

Where as, most of the younger archers have grown up in a world where the new fangled block and tackle bow was just a different type of bow.

I can see where they could referr to an older round cam compound by using the term traditional.....  And, maybe the long bow as primitive.

Its all a matter of perspective. 

Here is a picture of the next generation of "new fangled" arrow shooter....



A nockless aluminum arrow is fitted over a tube in the barrel....  The makers claim 400 FPS with compressed air...

Who knows, maybe my grandson will call all arrowshooting devices that use stored muscle power as "Traditional or even Primitive Bows".

To sum up, to paraphrase another member's post, it is nice that archery has so many different tangents a person can explore, the bottom line is enjoyment of the sport.

Most people view from their own experience.  This includes their interests, training and length of time in that field.

It is really as unimportant as the "Traditional" term for arrow stiffness testing being known a Spline, where the common "Present Day" term is Spine....

Tempest in a tea pot...  Primitive... Cave Man Archery?? -> Any bow that doesn't use cams and levers?? 

I just can't see where there should be this much debate.  Archery is for Everbody...

My 2 Cents

Steve

[Traxx]

It is really as unimportant as the "Traditional" term for arrow stiffness testing being known a Spline, where the common "Present Day" term is Spine....

I hafta respectfully dissagree with this statement.The Term SPLINE has never,to my knowledge been used to define the stiffness of an arrow spine.Spline,is a  inserted reinforcement to the nock and or point end of an arrow shaft.I have read where many confuse the two terms and that confusion has for the most part been a Present day misconception and not a traditional  term or a correct one.
Sorry,but this is a pet peave of mine.LOL

[NTD]

Traxx,
Guess you don't know the history on that Spline/spine comment.  It is obviously a pet peeve of his as well.  And he does qoute older texts with the use of spline...although in my opinion how things were spelled in the middle ages is irrelevant especially when you consider that the spelling of english words was subject to the whim of the writer well after the American Revolution.

But I do agree with his statements of perspective.  And thanks for that picture of the arrow shooting machine Steve.  My Friend Frank and I were just asking each other when that was going to happen...didn't realize it already had.

[Traxx]

I apologise,
I should have used the word Correctly,at the end of that second sentence.Are you saying,that if  printed in Text,that it must be true?At one time,some printed in Text that the world was flat as well.LOL
People took liberties in their writeing back then as well as today.Just cause someone wants to call an apple an orange,it doesnt make it so.

[NTD]

Traxx,

I reread my post and I think I wrote it in a way that might have been easily taken wrong.  I didn't mean you didn't know your history, I meant you must know the history of Steve and his issues with Spine/Spline   sorry if you took it wrong.

[Traxx]

No worries Nate,
Its all in Fun most of the time,around here.LOL

[crooketarrow]

   I agree use a stringer.It does put exture stress on you top limb.I also build my bows center shot or as close as the stave will let me.The closer to center shot the less critial spine is.As far as weight this is why recurves shoot better at longer distances.Not there better built just the heavyness makes it more stable in the hand.
  Isn't getting close the reason we hunt.If not we'd all shoot compounds at 80 yards.