New Year Shooting at the Medieval Butts

[outcaste]

Hi Guys,

Thought you might be interested in the following:

Calling All Archers of Sure Eye and Strong Arm:

Shooting at the Medieval Butts

Evoking the spirit of our forefathers the English War Bow Society calls all archers to the field of Crick, Monmouthshire, so that they may test their strength of arm and sure eye against all-comers whilst shooting at the medieval butts. Archers will be competing for not only a trophy and the acknowledgement of their peers, but for a purse of one hundred pounds.

During Lunch the EWBS ‘Livery Arrow’ will be shot for record status distance

Venue: Wye Valley Archery
Date: Sunday 10th January 2010
First Arrows: 10.30am
Shooting Fee: £5.00

Competition Rules

Butts to be set 220 yards apart
16 ends 3 arrows per end
Garland (target) set upon the butts shall be 12ins (outside diameter) and set at a height of a mans chest

Equipment

Arrows should be of wooden construction, self-nocked and fletched with feather
Arrow profile and fletching shape is left to the archers’ discretion
Bows should be of wooden construction and of longbow design (Self-bows are encouraged)
Only arrows weighing in at 52 grams and over will be eligible for the purse and trophy
Arrows weighing less than 52 grams will be eligible for the trophy

Scoring

Winning the Purse
Only arrows 52 grams and over within the garland may win the purse. Within the garland will be deemed as any arrow inside of the garland or piercing (not touching) the rope. In the event of more than one archer hitting the garland, then closest arrow to the centre will be pronounced the winner
Winning the trophy
Any arrow landing within/piercing the garland shall be seen as a winning arrow, arrows falling within the front face of the butt shall also be counted. Any arrow within the garland or the front face of the butt will be marked with a peg with the archers name place upon it. The trophy is deemed won by the arrow within or closest to the garland, not the number of total hits accrued during the competition.
In the event of no arrows landing within the garland or face of the butt, then the trophy and prize will be deemed as not won.
Shoot organisers decision will be final.

Insurance
All archers are welcome; Wye Valley Archery will provide insurance cover on the day with all archers needing to register to be covered.

I would like to say thanks to the Moderators for allowing me to promote this shoot within this section of the forum and if anyone would like to attend or has any questions, then please pm me.

Many thanks,
Alistair

[ratty]

hello Alistair

what date is the event?

[Yeomanbowman]

Shoot date: Sunday 10th January 2010

[Yeomanbowman]

I remember Rod posting about heavy bow archers being evasive about accuracy in one of your posts in the “Standarts of accuracy” thread and I think this shoot would be a great source of primary evidence.  Perhaps Rod, if you could come in person it would be an ideal opportunity to set a benchmark for military distance accuracy.  I’m sure an archer with a mastery of shooting technique should be easily capable of making the distance with an efficient 90lb bow. 
Jeremy

[outcaste]

hello Alistair

what date is the event?

Hi Fella,

It would be good if you could make it. I have put the date on the initial post, 10th Jan 2010

Alistair

[Marc St Louis]

A 52 gram arrow is roughly 800 grains.  Such an arrow fletched with low cut feathers can easily be shot 220 yards with an efficient 80 lb bow, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if a 70# bow could do it

Good luck with your shoot

[Yeomanbowman]

A 52 gram arrow is roughly 800 grains.  Such an arrow fletched with low cut feathers can easily be shot 220 yards with an efficient 80 lb bow, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if a 70# bow could do it

Good luck with your shoot

Yes, on a good weather day or for one end at least if the wind picks up.  Where the field is usually means that any wind is tail or head as it's in a valley.  In theory one arrow is enough to win

[Jaro]

Marc it wont be that easy with longbow, much less if the arrow has binding and forged arrowhead. Standard is 52 gram and see the results of distance achieved. That said, it is not best arrow for distance, since it does not like to fly far. But even low cut triangular fletch arrow wont do this distance easy with bows of this weight.
On our last shot we had surprisingly good bows in terms of cast in weights from 80#-100# - which is what most of our lads here can manage and best shot 187 m that is 204 yrds. (With 100#/31" dogwood bow and standart). We tried also more of low cut feather arrows and surprisingly didnt get that much distance over it. It might actually do 220 in better weather and without crosswind and with better arrow. My pal Paja has another 80# dogwood bow, which for its weight is one of best longbows I have seen and it wont do the distance.

Usually 80# longbow is quite good if it does 200 yrds with standart. 220 with 100# is pretty good if you look at the results. I would think it would need lots of fidling with arrow to get 220 yrds from 80#, much less 75#.

But then, I m first to admit we dont have best arrows around made.


J.

[Rod]

As it happens I mentioned this shoot to F.Russell French who holds a "Three Clout End" award, probably the only known LB three clout end to date in open competition, in the form of a blazer badge especially made for and presented to him by Bert Smith for three consecutive arrows in the clout in BLBS competition.

Predictably, the response was not unexpected.
Although he is capable of making the distance with the necessary equipment, he expressed the view that he was not inclined to go to the trouble of travelling to a shoot where the rules of shooting made it a lottery rather than a test of skill.

Not to say that the odds would not be somewat in the favour of the better archers, but we have seen it happen before at fun shoots where a notorious muff wins with one serendipitous arrow.

If I had the necessary equipment to hand and was able to attend, I would be happy to shoot if the number of hits by every archer were published, even if I were at the bottom of that list with no hits at all, which is by no means impossible at 220 yards, especially on a windy day.
And given my dilapidated physical condition, Jeremy. 

I have been considering a heavier bow, no doubt still light by artillery standards, but I am torn between that and making a new primitive bow to my own measure for instinctive field shooting in the NFAS.

I don't get out much these days, but I did win an Xmas Pudding yesterday  at Spirit of Sherwood with a tolerable but not outstanding peg average of 13.5 using a borrowed bow that I made quite some time ago for a friend who has much shorter arms than I.

Still, I am glad to see this healthy but tentative step towards addressing what until now has appeared to be an unpopular topic.

Rod.

[Ian.]

As it happens I mentioned this shoot to F.Russell French who holds a "Three Clout End" award, probably the only known LB three clout end to date in open competition, in the form of a blazer badge especially made for and presented to him by Bert Smith for three consecutive arrows in the clout in BLBS competition.

Predictably, the response was not unexpected.
Although he is capable of making the distance with the necessary equipment, he expressed the view that he was not inclined to go to the trouble of travelling to a shoot where the rules of shooting made it a lottery rather than a test of skill.

Not to say that the odds would not be somewat in the favour of the better archers, but we have seen it happen before at fun shoots where a notorious muff wins with one serendipitous arrow.

If I had the necessary equipment to hand and was able to attend, I would be happy to shoot if the number of hits by every archer were published, even if I were at the bottom of that list with no hits at all, which is by no means impossible at 220 yards, especially on a windy day.
And given my dilapidated physical condition, Jeremy. 

I have been considering a heavier bow, no doubt still light by artillery standards, but I am torn between that and making a new primitive bow to my own measure for instinctive field shooting in the NFAS.

I don't get out much these days, but I did win an Xmas Pudding yesterday  at Spirit of Sherwood with a tolerable but not outstanding peg average (16.2 adjusted) using a borrowed bow that I made quite some time ago for a friend who has much shorter arms than I.

Still, I am glad to see this healthy but tentative step towards addressing what until now has appeared to be an unpopular topic.

Rod.

So what your saying is that because you/or he cant do it know one can??

[Yeomanbowman]

If I had the necessary equipment to hand and was able to attend, I would be happy to shoot if the number of hits by every archer were published, even if I were at the bottom of that list with no hits at all, which is by no means impossible at 220 yards, especially on a windy day.

Rod,
The results of our shoots are always posted on the EWBS website but in this case they were always to be posted on PA, as it is a tread here (total hits on the butts and closest to the garland).  So if that's all that's stopping you and Mr. French it would be a pleasure to have you both there.

[adb]

Sounds to me like it's put-up or shut-up time for some people.

[Rod]

Interesting how some folks can find the meaning they want by reading between the lines.

(And that none of you have commented upon my mischievous 16.2 (13.5 actually) which would produce a score in PB territory for primitive and very near to it in longbow).

But then when your focus has been on more upon draw weight and how far they go for so long, and where they go is attendant upon mastery of the weight, it is understandable that accuracy will tend to be neglected in the beginning.

If and when I got back into shooting a heavier weight, it would be fun to attend, but preferably somewhere more centrally located.

This event is a positive step if it generates more interest on a hitherto neglected area and opens the door to methodically benchmarking probable accuracy and increasing our knowledge of the heavy bow and its capabilities in the hands of those who have mastered it.

As for the amusing innuendo about shooting technique....   

Rod.








 

[Yeomanbowman]

Interesting how some folks can find the meaning they want by reading between the lines.

(And that none of you have commented upon my mischievous 16.2 (13.5 actually) which would produce a score in PB territory for primitive and very near to it in longbow).

But then when your focus has been on more upon draw weight and how far they go for so long, and where they go is attendant upon mastery of the weight, it is understandable that accuracy will tend to be neglected in the beginning.

If and when I got back into shooting a heavier weight, it would be fun to attend, but preferably somewhere more centrally located.

This event is a positive step if it generates more interest on a hitherto neglected area and opens the door to methodically benchmarking probable accuracy and increasing our knowledge of the heavy bow and its capabilities in the hands of those who have mastered it.

As for the amusing innuendo about shooting technique....   

Rod.

I'll take that as a no, then.

[Ian.]

Hmmmm arm chair archery is a tiresome sport dont you think