Yew ring count

[Keenan]

Yew ring count.  I've seen several comments about this and this is what I have found through allot of testing and trial. I'm sure there are some that will disagree, but these are my findings not what I've read or heard.
I have several bows that I've made from extremely high ring count and have thousands of shots through them, with no noticeable weakening or fatigue. I believe if a yew bow is built right it will hold up for your life time.
  Yew is one of the great bow woods ,that is very versatile and almost any part of the tree can make a great bow, with the exception of serious compromising knots. Limbs work just a well as the trunk.
   What I have found is that lower ring count yew is less dense, not as strong and takes on more set.  I've had some disagree we this in the past but I think it might be, that they have not had experience, with great high ring count yew and tend to think lesser ring count as equal. The reality is, that yew is good weather low or high count.  However if I were looking at side by side stave's, one of 15-20 rings and one of 40-60, I would drop hard earned cash on the high ring count in preference every time.
 I live in abundant yew country and have had more experience with this wood then any other woods that I've used.  Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
 

[adb]

With my more limited experience with yew, I'd have to agree. I've only made a half dozen yew bows, because I live in an area that has no yew trees, and it's very expensive for me to obtain. I've made several higher poundage longbows tillered full compass with high density yew (40+ rpi) which seem to be holding up just fine after many shots. I've also made some shorter length bendy handle low density yew bows, some backed with rawhide, and these all took on about twice as much set.

I respect Mr. Bickerstaffe. I spent a few hours in his shop, and was able to learn a vast amount in that short time. He was a very gracious host. However, I do disagree with him on a few points. The one about a yew bow being "shot out" in only a few months doesn't hold any water for me. As I said, I have several high poundage yew selfbows, and after several hundreds of shots, they all seem just fine. Also, yew will make a bow out of very marginal material, as opposed to other woods which would be junk. Yew is tough stuff. It just seems to enjoy bending. It's also very easy to work, as it's a softer wood. I believe much controversy exists with yew.

[Keenan]

 "Also, yew will make a bow out of very marginal material, as opposed to other woods which would be junk. Yew is tough stuff. It just seems to enjoy bending. It's also very easy to work, as it's a softer wood. I believe much controversy exists with yew. "
 
 Well said; I agree.  I had a talk with one of the members today about what makes yew a great bow wood.  He had heard about it denting easy because of being soft. Though it dose dent easy in comparison to hard woods such as Osage, it dosen't seem to matter much or cause failure. It's just overall very durable as bow wood.  And as ADB said that makes it easy to work,

[radius]

i love working with yew.  After making 8 or 10 yew bows this season i have come to know it alot better.  I understand why it is made to compass through the handle:  the yew stiff-handled bows i have made took alot of set.  Also, i have found that yew works better as a narrow d-shaped bow than as a flatbow.  The ring count was fair.  I dunno, never counted but probably 6 to the quarter inch at least.  The wood seasoned quickly when split into staves (a couple of the pieces i had found were already downed trees).  It's gorgeous stuff and i can't wait to get back to working it.  Got to finish the wife's bow, but i'm too busy now!  hmm...

[Del the cat]

Hi, I've just posted a thread about Weird Yew, maybe you'd have a look, I just cut a great lookin' piece, but found a weird area which is neither sap wood nor heart wood, it looks like it's almost in the process of becoming heartwood. Dunno if you've met this ?
I want to maximise my use of the log, I was severly dissapointed once I'd felled it .
Cheers
Del

[Keenan]

 Radius,  I think the reason that your stiff handle bows took more set is because a thicker narrow profile bow will generally take on more set then a flat bow. Contrary to your thoughts I perfer a flat much more then a deep narrow for yew. I've found about 1.5" wide and a very squashed oval profile is what I like best.  With that design it doesn't matter if you have a stiff handle, and the bow is less likely to take excessive set.
  The beauty of yew is that it is very versatile for different designs. I think if you do some more flat bows out of yew with good high ring count, you will change your mind.

[radius]

well god knows i'm gonna keep making bows!  In a few years i might have as much experience as you, and we can compare notes then. 

[radius]

Radius,  I think the reason that your stiff handle bows took more set is because a thicker narrow profile bow will generally take on more set then a flat bow. Contrary to your thoughts I perfer a flat much more then a deep narrow for yew. I've found about 1.5" wide and a very squashed oval profile is what I like best.  With that design it doesn't matter if you have a stiff handle, and the bow is less likely to take excessive set.
  The beauty of yew is that it is very versatile for different designs. I think if you do some more flat bows out of yew with good high ring count, you will change your mind.

my stiff handled bows were flatbows, Keenan.  I didn't read you properly at first. 

When you say "squashed oval" are you describing camber across the back and a flat belly?

[adb]

One other thing I neglected to mention that I like about yew, is it's ease to bend with almost all heat sources. I usually boil the tips for slight recurves with yew.

[Keenan]

Radius, yes If I take a mid limb cut it would look like a very squashed oval slight curve on the belly and crown, with the edges about center line.  This has become my favorite. However not all stave's will work for that profile; sometimes with an abundance of knots a profile like you prefer will work best,  Thats the beauty of yew is the versatility. As far as experience I doubt I have that much more then you. Though I may have some years on you,you are kicking out allot of nice bows and nothing trumps hands on experience.   We share these thoughts to broaden our understanding. Just as I may encourage you to rethink the flat bow you have encouraged me to try some more elbs. Everyone gains.
  I do respect your input very much. You have dove in with both feet and learned allot about yew in a short time.

[radius]

thanks Keenan

Another wood that grows in my area is Juniper, which i think you have some practice with, as well.  Must juniper be backed?  Or will its sapwood serve as a strong enough backing?

[radius]

  I do respect your input very much. You have dove in with both feet and learned allot about yew in a short time.

Thanks for that, man!  It was only a few months ago i brought home a buttload of cedar, thinking it was yew, and you said, "Uh, yeah, i've cut a lot of yew and that aint it!" 

Don't worry, i didn't take it the wrong way, but man did i feel stupid for putting so much work into the wrong thing!  Few months off bowmaking for me now, but when i get back in i should have a good stash of yew to work with!

[Keenan]

Radius, Juniper can make a good bow but it's not near as versatile as yew. The heart wood by itself is too brittle to hold up without backing.  With sap wood heart wood combo a self bow is possible but not recommended. It has various reports of letting go after a certain amount of shots. I have made on self bow (only one I've tried and as far as I know it's still together. But as a general rule of thumb baked is the safer way to go with juniper. It's excellent for short sinewed replica bows. And Juniper Junkie just made a great Hildagard/sinew bow that is a very good performer. I have made a few longer elb style bows from juniper that were very sluggish, and had thought they are best as short bows. But Dave has made a great shooter on his recent one.
 Lots of different variety and hard to tell the difference with out a good book. One thing that I have noticed is the juniper with bark that looks like it has horizontal slash marks every foot or so is not good. It's ususally real straight and clear but is like balsa wood.  I perfer the mountain or common Juniper and like the top part of a limb.

[radius]

ah well...i just have to arrange a ride and i've got a truckload of yew waiting for me in a small town on vancouver island....i think the yew around here is pretty good, but i'm new...maybe 20 bows from now i'll think differently.

i think this thread started from a comment i made about pip bickerstaffe on another thread recently.   I sure hope to get to work with the man, and hang in his shop, and just see what goes on in a professional bowyer's shop.  I love what he said to me:  I have made over 15,000 bows, and i'm starting to get an idea what wood can do.

[Keenan]

Here is a few pics of one that I am working on. It's high elev. Very tight but this stave was severely deflexed.  About 6.5"   I learned a few years ago, not to overlook the potential in a deflexed stave. Especially with yew because it heat corrects very well. This bow is just roughed out but here is what it looks like after I rolled the mid limb a little for an R/D profile.