Cascara stave - thoughts?

[BigWapiti]

Ok, I started the fire in the shop this past weekend -- way too cold lately to be out there... am I getting old?

Anywayyyy, I started on a Cascara stave I had in the shop since last spring.  Once I got it down to initial shape, I put it up on the board.  I knew it was going to be a challenge, but hmmm...  What do you think about this one?  That right limb seems to have taken some reflex - its going to make it a tough bugger to get the tillering started.   Thinking of maybe heating and trying to bend some of that reflex out, if its even possible.  This cascara is a lot like VM.

Have any suggestions before I dive in??

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[Keenan]

 Looks like a fun project to me . I would heat treat the left limb where the hump is and make it reflex there instead of diving down. That will balance the profile out a little and help with tillering. Leave the right limb alone for now and by the time you reflex the left one you should be about right. Cascara is a great bow wood. Keep us posted on the progress.

[BigWapiti]

Thanks!  That was another thought I had -- but was thinking, maybe over thinking, that bending reflex in might tend to become lost quickly during tillering.  I've never bent wood in the reflex or deflex direction before - just left/right for string alignment. 

Probably pretty crucial to get it good and warm - otherwise it'd be like over bending a bow.. right??

[Keenan]

Basically what you will be doing is heat tepering the belly while inducing some extra reflex in that left limb. I would also heat temper the belly of the other limb to match in strength but just don't add any more reflex to the other limb. You will probably lose about 1-2" of reflex as it settles in. But I would try to induce a little extra where that whop-de-do is on the left.

[brian melton]

 Heat and Cascara?? Be carefull it is brittle wood to begin with. No offense, but I personally would have lesft that stave in the woods.

Brian

[Keenan]

 Brian is right that cascara can be brittle and he has probably worked more then any of us.

 PS. Brian,   I can't believe that you could possibly leave a perfectly good stave like that Just look at the character it that like it is   Where is your sense of adventure

[Gordon]

Keenan, you're just a sick man - you just can't leave those poor crooked sticks be.

[BigWapiti]

Left it in the woods?  Ah com'on... 

It was nice and straight when I cut it, the reflex didn't show up until after a few weeks in the shop while it was drying (yes... i glued the ends... just in case your typin' fingers were gettin' antsy)

Sounds like we have here another good challenge for me...   I like these wacky pieces.  Will let ya know.  I might try to give it a short bend just to see what happens -

So Brian... lets say you would take this one out of the woods, and having you mention that its a brittle wood - what would you try here?  I don't want to kill the tree for nothing.  Would you tackle the left limb as was mentioned - or maybe try for the right possibly a little less drastic - or just start tillering w/o attempting to bend it?  Just curious what your approach might be.

I'm all for the adventure!  (is that the Superman theme I'm hearing in the background now?? or is it Rocky?  not sure)

Thanks All !

Mike

[hedgeapple]

That is one crazy piece of wood.  I had to chime in just so I can keep up with the progress.  Make it work Wapiti. 

[Ryano]

I'd try to get that bump out of the left limb for sure. Not sure you'd ever get that area bending enough otherwise...

[BigWapiti]

Well dang... you'all have me paranoid now!    I had a vine maple like this 2 years ago that had a whoop similar to this, I didn't know better so just went to work on it and turned out a nice bow - my first even.  But I didnt' know better to not tackle it -heheh.  And too, thats vine maple which sounds a lot different than cascara now.  Cascara, as a tree/bush, looks so similar to VM.

It'd be great if anyone wants to do a little artwork on the image to give me an idea for how/what you might do to get that whoop on the left limb out.  Bend here this way, bend there that way?  I wish I didn't know better now.. gee thanks fellers... hehe

[DanaM]

Mike I think its a great looking stave, dem whoop de dos can be a bugger, I would also try to flatten it probably by heating it and putting
a big c clamp on it to squeeze da booger out
What DL and weight are you going for and is it going to be a rigid handle or bendy handle? You will learn more from the tough staves than
you will from the straight characterless ones, have fun eh

[BigWapiti]

I want to make a bow for a buddy of mine - tall guy.  Draw of 30", and I'd sure like to go 55-60#... but all this talk of brittle wood and needs for bend has me thinking I'd be best making this a turkey bow and pick another stave for him.   He asked for a character bow... this certainly fits the bill....  But maybe one of my longer VM staves would better suit his draw length and poundage.

Love the suggestions and comments - thanks!

Mike

[brian melton]

         Ok, I will play along... I would like a pic of the belly in the area of the erratic bend....if possible??? I would suggest steam, and lots of it. I would deflex the reflexed limb, and very carefully try to steam as much of the "kink" out as possible. By this I mean....reflex or deflex the area as needed to obtain a straight limb as viewed from the side. Leave a accessive amount of wood in the area of the "kink" till you get the bow bending on both sides of the bend ("kink") ...this will be a guessing game, especially when it comes to a final wanted draw weight. Most important will be a need for a backing....(unless your feeling lucky) You could burnish the heck out of the limbs , but in my expirience once you alter the natural makeup of Cascara it becomes a weak spot. Your biggest problem is where the "kink"is..... not impossible, but you will work for it!

Brian

[DanaM]

Sounds like good advice