Author Topic: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???  (Read 10310 times)

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Shooter_G22

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uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« on: December 09, 2008, 11:41:57 pm »
well,

 i think i "know" what im doing wrong and that is.. that i dont "know" what im doing...  >:(

but i never thought that this knaping stuff would be taht hard...   i mean im not one to think just becuase its primitive that it would be easy...  but im pretty good with my hands and i useally good at getting things accomplished once i set my mind to it...   maybe that another thing im doing wrong i havent really dippined my whole concentraition on it.... as far as getting the proper tools and know how like books and or visual aid...  but i figured if i went out and bought some proper stone, then things would come a little easier.. just not soo..  i went out and picked up over 20#'s of flint today and then went to pounding it with a mexican river or beach pebble... nice hard black round stone as a hammer stone... but i feel like i just mad a big mess and not one flake came out close to looking like a point that i could fine sahpe into an arrow head...  uuugh!!!
whew :(
maybe i should stop all togather or at least until i get some proper tools and a video...!!!

im going to try and post pics of the mess i made...ltr...
lol...


Offline ricktrojanowski

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 06:33:52 am »
I am new to knapping as well and still in the "making nice stone into junk" phase.  You only need to get a couple of tools to get started.  I would get a pressure flaker and a couple of copper boppers.   You can make or find an abrader.  As far as videos.  YOUTUBE has a bunch and they are free.  Not to mention all of the shared knowledge on this site.  The best way to learn is to sit down with someone that knows how to knap.  You will learn more in one hour with a knappper than a year watching videos.  Jamie keeps telling me you have to break a lot of rock at first to get something usable.  So keep breaking. ;D
Traverse City, MI

Offline leapingbare

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 06:59:49 am »
It takes time and practice. not only do you need the know how.. but the dexterity and coordination and Muscle memory to go with it.
 Practice , practice , practice....
 When i 1st started. I destroyed about 300lbs of good riolite.. and just started to sorta get it. and now 9 years later i finaly sorta know what i am doing.
 
   Just get some rock and beat it. Best thing would be go to a knapp-in. Find the knapping circle set down with your rock and tools and look silly and say " Hey guys what am i doin wrong" and you will receive all sorta advice and make friends and probably be given free rocks to learn on.
  Or if you can make it to the T.N Classic Next year 1st weekend in May. I'll be there and will give free lessions to anyone who ask.
Mililani Hawaii

Offline knap_123

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 07:46:59 am »
practice on tv glass, jug bottoms, and oyher cheap easy to waste material. unles you live were you have acess to good stone, but if you will learn to work crap, good stone will seem like candy to you. toilet tank soaked in water is great.  loose the mex. stone.  i have a few i tryed for spalling and there ok for that.  but there to hard for knappable hammerstones.  i like unweighted bopperes, buy some dowl rod and copper caps. all different sizes. just cut tour handles and glue the caps on with 2 part epoxy.  now a grinding weel and your ready.  bohunter on you tube will show you how to break it up. theres lots of great videos list under knapping. and post some pics regardless of how it looks and what you think otheres might think.  pics will help otheres give you pointeres. i keep my first point as a reminder of how far i come. and man, i'm so happy i did'nt give up,  now i make points i'm proud of.    not every person can do this wonderful hobby, but anybody can learn how!  practice,practice and ask ????  good luck and happy knapping, john

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 08:53:36 am »
You just got to destroy a lot of material until you get the feel of it. Knapping is all about angles. I would strongly suggest that you get a copy of DC Waldorf's "The Art of Flintknapping" and get the video that goes with it. And like Knap123 said, your hammerstone is probably way too hard, also. You want a softer hammerstone that will initiate slower fractures. Hard hammerstones just cone and fracture the rock, especially if you hit it at the wrong angle.
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Offline Hardawaypoints

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 11:25:04 am »
It's all about desire, you gotta want to learn.  Like you, I thought, How hard can it be?  Turns out ancient man was a great craftsman who used what material he had available to survive is some harsh conditions.

Just to echo the rest of the replies here, it is all about learning how to get the rock to break the way you want it to.  You have to learn to accept failure at this game and grow from it.  Patience is a key. Remember that NOBODY was born knowing how to do this stuff and EVERYBODY had to start at square one.  You will not get good at knapping overnight, so don't expect to.  Lessons from an experienced knapper or going to a knap-in and asking questions are the best and fastest way to understand this obsession. Just like climbing a ladder, it takes one rung at a time to get to where you want to be.

First, you need to learn how to get rock to flake. Starting with glass is a great idea because it is plentiful & available anywhere. Make sure you are wearing safety glasses & gloves with glass and keep a supply of band-aids handy. I started by learning pressure flaking and the billet work came more easily after that. Obsidian is a good material to move to from there because it behaves a lot like glass, but comes in rock form  (unless you buy slabs).  Once you get familiar with how it works, move on to harder materials.  Good knapping books and videos are tangible help when there isn't somebody at hand to ask. Go with inexpensive material to start with.  Destroying good rock serves no purpose.

You will make points that are about as fat as they are wide at first.  Make sure you save some of your early points to serve as something to measure your progress along the journey.  In my experience, a good set of billets, either antler or copper (or both)will help because you will get better leverage than with a hammerstone.  You will also need to realize that it takes striking the rock exactly where you want at the correct angle, to get flakes to detach where you want them to. Since your are already good with your hands, your Eureka! moment should come quicker than some. Keep after it. There are no shortcuts, practice is the only way to get better.


Even as long as I have been knapping, I'm still nowhere near as good at it as I'd like to be & am constantly learning from others.  That is the best part of being in this rock-breaking tribe, there is a shared understanding of this passion for making stone tools the way the ancient ones did.

I don't know if that helped, but I hope it did. Good luck & good chippin'.

Jim
Luck counts, good or bad.

Offline Otoe Bow

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 03:03:18 pm »
Exactly what Jim said.  Sometimes I got my game on.  Sometimes not.  Here lately it's been mostly Not, and thats because I've been too busy to really work at it.  I do feel that I'm learning, because my earlier point were as fat as they were wide.  Now I get them so thin I break them, usually when I just....want....to.....take....one more...arrrgggggggg flake. :'(

Have fun and post up.

Mike   
So far, I haven't found any Osage or knappable rock over here.  Embrace the suck

Offline stickbender

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 03:33:58 pm »

     Shooter, I am in the same boat.  But I have made six decent points.  Not exactly how I wanted to, but they will do the job, and don't look too bad.  I still can't seem to make a decent spall, but like they said, I just keep at it trying different angles, and methods, and different power levels in my strokes with my bopper.  I don't have really good material to work with, but I think that is a good thing, because, if I can make a decent point out of not so good stone, then I should be able to do a lot better with the good stuff.  I have a mix of some good stuff, and some that is not quite what you would want to try to make a point out of, but I use it anyway, because I learn from it.  I am lucky in that I can occasionally go to Eddie's, and then we go to Claude Van Order's house, and I get to watch him.  Eddie gave me a couple of buckets of stuff, that is like I said, a mixture of decent, and good, and what the hell?  But it has really helped me.  I didn't have anything to practice on.  Just keep at it.  You're gonna get cut, bashed, and sore hands, and inner thighs, from this addiction, but just keep at it.  I get really frustrated at times, when I get a really nice piece of obsidian that Eddie gave me, and I start getting a nice point going, and then @#@$$#@!!!! it breaks in half!  Or, I take too big of a flake, or chunk out, and now I have this piece of stone, that is now going back into the bucket, for later.  I still can't seem to get them thin as I would like, but occasionally, I do.  I still can't get consistent long flakes, but occasionally, I get more of them than previously.  So I am making progress, but not like I would like to.  I see the beautiful stuff on here, and I think, Man, if I could just do that......Well some day.  I am aiming for that goal, to be able to put something on here, that is close to what has been shown on here.  I don't think it will be any time soon.  I still have to get with a friend of mine who doesn't live too far from Eddie, and Claude.  He knows where there is some stone we could use.  I need to get a lot of it, because, I need to keep on practicing, and I want to give a bunch to Eddie.  He has really helped me a lot with what he has given me.  He is a lot better than he gives himself credit for.  But like the others have said, just keep at it, and If you can find someone in your area that knapps, all the better.  I would doubt that they would refuse to help you.  Instead I would think they would be eager to show you what they know, and help you to develop your skill.  I think it just goes with the type of person who is into knapping.  You just automatically want to share your knowledge, and spread the addiction......

                                                                                       Wayne

Offline toms22

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 05:42:21 pm »
Stickbender, I liked your reply, I am just getting started and have been trying about 6 months. My hands got real sore, there are still sore but I am able to knap some. I have made a lot of points and I think that I am getting the hang on it. I bought some videos and I have found out that the ishi stick makes the flakes go futher. I bought some preforms and have been able to break them up to make some nice points. I would like to post some pictures of the points that I have made but do not now how to post them. This knapping is real habit form and I love to sit and make the points. I hope to make a knap in next year. I live in NC. Where will a knap in be close to NC.

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 05:45:47 pm »
Lot's of good advice here....not sure I can add too much.

I'm still learning too, and I'm no expert, but I've helped my kids make a few arrowheads (that they think are really cool) by using a simple plan:

Make uniface arrowheads from thin flakes. (uniface means that one side of the flake is basically untouched)
Use percussion to brake off thin flakes from the core stone and finish up with pressure flaking.
Choose a simple shape (that is not long and narrow) and with no notches.

The picture below shows a real arrowhead of this type.  Not all arrowheads had a fancy, pretty flake pattern on both sides.  Just make sure the arrowhead ends up with a taper towards the tip (so it will be sharp) and also towards the base (so it can be hafted easily).

[attachment deleted by admin]
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

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Offline JackCrafty

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 06:13:53 pm »
Here's a good video series on making thin flakes and then shaping the flake into an arrowhead.  Copper is probably the best material for percussion (for beginners)....and establishing a good "platform" is critical. A platform is a bump that sicks out from the edge.  You've got to grind down the platform so that it is not sharp....otherwise you will just crush the platform when you hit it.

---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOzSv6kU1o&feature=channel
---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nAWbAPlJE0&NR=1
---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwQK2oul8cY&feature=related
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 06:20:31 pm by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 10:26:47 pm »
Toms22, where are you in NC? There are a few good knap-ins in the area. The one at the Schiele Museum in Gastonia the first weekend in August is a good one. We organized the first annual NC Knap-in near Burlington last Oct., will try to do it again next fall. The North Georgia Knap-in is just north of Atlanta in the Spring, and there is one every October in Lenoir City, TN that is only a couple hours drive from western NC.
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Progress might have been all right once but it's gone on for far too long.

Shooter_G22

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 01:08:25 am »
why isnt there any knap in here in north texas... 

does anybody know of anything like that...    that would be close enough for me to go to me and some of the boys on the team???

i woould love to go to one of these events ????

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2008, 01:31:20 am »
No matter how good you get you'll still be learning. I busted up nearly a ton of rock before I got some useable points. Still not all that good yet but I keep trying. Keep breaking and taking advice from guys here and watch the youtube videos. They are great!

Where you at? If your up in the Northwest the big Glass Buttes gathering in OR is the best place to meet a bunch of the best flint knappers on the West coast.


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Offline leapingbare

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Re: uuugh... what the heck am i doing wrong???
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2008, 06:14:54 am »
I think there is a knapp in in O.K sometime, and there are allot of knappers in T.X.
Mililani Hawaii