Author Topic: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?  (Read 27832 times)

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Offline D. Tiller

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2008, 09:10:26 pm »
77 today and sunny! What a change. No Rain!!!  ;D
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline stickbender

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2008, 03:17:03 am »

     Well, Radius, apparently Michbowguy has never heard of......The Amazing Ginzu knife!  You can cut the Christmas tree to size, and cut through the super hard, and tough thin aluminum soft drink can, AND, yes, AND still slice a tomato!  Lets see you do that with a rock!  No, no, smashing the tomato doesn't count.
Heh, heh, heh, stir, stir, stir, the pot, merily, merily, stir, stir, the pot......or is that roll, been awhile since the sixties......
     As for penetration of stone, versus steel, remember that stone is made of silica.  You know like silicone lubricant.  Steel, tends to grip, rather slip through.  Also the serrated edges, or the stone point, has more surface area, and the thickness, and shape of the stone point has more shock value.  The only draw back is how the stone point is hafted, and how the end of the shaft that the point is hafted to, is shaped.  Whether it is bare, covered with, and smoothed with hide glue, or left un tapered, or smoothed.
     Anyway, no matter how you look at it stone is sharper than steel.  You can burnish metal to a smooth edge, but it will never be thin enough or smooth enough to come close enough to obsidian, or glass, or good flint, or chert.  Like I said the only advantage with steel, is it's durability, and design features, and ability to take more damaging forces.  A piece of stone, especially the obsidian, can cut you so bad you will bleed yesterday!  AND you probably won't know it till you see the blood, or feel the sting when something like water gets to it.  Back in the mid to late sixties, the Japanese used glass blades to slice the spindle fibers, of a deviding cell. 

                                                             Stick Bender

                     

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2008, 03:58:57 am »
I sliced open my finger to and cut part of one of my tendons in the finger and never felt a thing until the blood started flowing down the back of my hand. That was obsidian! Sharpest substance on the face of the earth!
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline sailordad

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2008, 11:54:03 am »
if obsidian is that sharp and dnagerous, why do i always hear people telling newbies to learn on obsidian?

only asking cause im thinking of trying knapping


                                                                             peace,
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Offline DanaM

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2008, 12:19:54 pm »
Tim obsidian works easy and doesn't require any heat treating.

If you are interested in starting I would suggest free stuff like toilet tanks and 1/4" plate glass :)
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2008, 03:29:09 pm »
Make sure the glass you use has been tempered. If its untempered it will just crumble. Obsidian is cool stuff. Volcanic glass that works great and very easily. I like it a lot! I have just been learning how to really knapp it a lot bette. Make sure you platform even for flaking and strike or press off flakes bellow the center line and never above.

David T
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Stringman

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2008, 11:12:16 pm »
I've been playin around with knappin a little lately, thought about huntin with some of the points. (Sure is easy to see which ones I started on.) Kinda wonderin where is a good place to get my hands on some rock. I have been using some flakes I teased off recently at the '08 MoJam, but am almost out of them. Also, is there a recipe for the heating process, or do you have to ruin a lot of rock before you do it right?!?

d:^)
Scott

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2008, 02:27:25 am »
Where you from Scott? Out here on the west coast I head for Glass Buttes once a year to collect obsidian. One day I hope to have a vehicle I can get out in the desert with off road to prospect for different sources. Wish it was easier to obtain but I have to travel for it and it takes a good 12-14 hours to get from WA to West of Bend OR where it is. If it was not for good friends who help me to get around the Buttes at the Knapp Inn there I don't think I would have any rock to work. If you are in a region with no resources you can always use old toilets also known as Thunder Chert or John Stone. Works well and is inexpensive to learn on and 1/4" thick glass works well too.

Just wish we had chert sources that are easy to get to here in the Northwest. Agates can be found in rivers here but nothing really big.

David T
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Stringman

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2008, 01:59:32 pm »
I'm from central I'll and we don't have a lot of any rock on the ground around here. Occasionally find old indian points but almost never find any usable chert or flint. Are quarries or suppliers just so expensive its out of the question?  Someone told me around $100 for a 5 gal bucket. Not sure that's worth it, but don't want to give up my new found hobby just yet.

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2008, 12:57:33 am »
At the Buttes we pick up around 250 pound at a pop for nothing! Just find it and use it. Now back east they will charge ya a bundle. Though I probably should tack on gas to get there. The hassle of traveling out the the OR desert and supplies and such. But it really is fun!

If I were you I would find some glass, porcelain dishes and toilet bowls and practice on those before buying chert for those high prices. Flintknapping should not break your bank!

David T
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline cowboy

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2008, 10:30:03 am »
Stringman: You should learn how to knap on any kind of "free" glass you can find for starters. I imagine theirs some kind of rock in your area that would work, prolly down in the creeks or maybe in a cuttout along a highway or backroad. Thunderchert (toilet tanks) is tough but will teach you a lot, TV picture tubes are great to work with because their so thick and have that smoked glass look - makes your flakes stand out a little better.
When you come upon a track or trail you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing.

Offline Otoe Bow

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2008, 07:12:03 pm »
I learned on Johnstone, then cut my teeth on Paul's concrete potatoes  ;D.  I then got some heat treated rock and treated some of Paul's rock and what once was hard is not pretty simple.  I think if you learn on the tough stuff, you learn good techniques and hopefully not too may bad habits.

Mike
So far, I haven't found any Osage or knappable rock over here.  Embrace the suck

Stringman

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2008, 07:11:06 pm »
All good info, and much appreciated! I consider myself a quick learner and therefore don't really wanna waste around on "junk glass" -(no offense.)

Being a central Illinois flatlander what I would really like to hear is, are there any others in my area with the same problem. Is chert gettin more and more scarce or are they just makin the price ridiculously high for the fun of it?!?

By the way I just got stitches from a "dumb 'ol rock." Gonna leave a pretty little scar!

d:^)

Offline cowboy

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  • Paul Wolfe. Springtown, TX
Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2008, 09:16:25 pm »
Glass is good to learn with - just like obsidian. I have read that chert is among the most abundant natural resources on the planet - knowing where to find it is almost one of life's mysteries ;D.
When you come upon a track or trail you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing.

jamie

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Re: how sharp can a rock be, anyway?
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2008, 07:59:15 am »
be careful if you learn on the hard stuff. many a time i have worked texas concrete and then switched to obsidian only to drive a flake straight through 2 thick pieces of leather and into my palm. again ...its sharp. peace