Ipe and Bamboo

[markinengland]

Stan,
Some impressive shooting at Batsford on Saturday. A new record of 450 yards with a flight arrow and a laminated flight longbow. Also a very respectable distance equalling the record for standard arrow. I think a record for the military arrow. I was really annoyed to forget to take my camera!
Steve Stratton is setting up a British Warbow Society. I think the weight limited you must be ABOVE is 70lb (so it starts at 71lbs and goes up!). This will allow shooting by heavy bows that isn't apparently welcome eslewhere. I am sure that Steve will post some info. He was talking about a need for insurance in order to join nd he has an individual insurance cover arranged. I must make a heavier bow and join myself as I enjoy the kind of shooting they do.
My tiller tree is a lump of pressure treated 4x2 fixed to the wall with frame fixings. If I take it off I can easily fill the small holes in the wall and nothing shows. I made up a seat for the bow to sit on and give enough overhang out of plywood. A pulley is fitted to the 2x4 at the bottom. Really quite simple and quick to make. It does make tillering so much better, though it is still quite a work out. I think I need to make a new improved one soon to give myself room for a longer draw.
Bank Holiday weather is annoying for us back garden bowyers. If only I had a proper workshop!
Mark in Wet England

[stevesjem]

Just to put the records straight, the flight shot was by Jeremy Spencer, he shot 432yds with a laminated bow of his own construction.
With regards the heavy bow society, it is not just me, there are a number of us putting this thing together, Mark Stretton, Jeremy Spencer, Alistair Aston, Nick Ashley, just to name a few, The idea is to form a society called the English Warbow Society, Once thibgs have been ironed out i will post more info.

Cheers

Steve

[backgardenbowyer]

Got a good couple of hours on the tiller after work today (only free evening this week), and it is pretty much there.  The pic shows 26" draw but only because I lacked confidence to leave it long enough at 28" while I fiddled with the camera.  I think it is 68lbs@28" - more of a wimp bow than a war bow but I can't pull it!  When the nocks are fitted the finished length will be a little shorter, so allowing for some sanding and settling down I'm on for my target weight of 65-70lbs.  I know it doesn't qualify as a warbow, but I'm getting there with the tiller and technique and it should give me a step up towards heavier bows.

Although I've gone for a fairly shallow D shape for safety (1 1/16" x 13/16" at the handle) it's a bit uncomfortalbe to hold and I'll have to add a small cork packer and some leather binding which spoils the clean traditional look.  Never mind.  The buffalo nocks are roughed out and with luck I could be testing it next weekend.  Let's hope there are no disasters!

Comments always welcome - thanks for the advice.

Keep me posted about the warbow society.

Thanks

Stan

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[bobnewboy]

Keep up the good work Stan.  I hope to see you shoot it at the club shoot in two weeks time 

Cheerz, Bob

[Rich Saffold]

Stan,Its the hazards of making a heavy skinny limbed bow..you either need a thick palm, or a little more padding.  I often use high density foam on the palm side then a leather wrap over it..Seems to work without messing with the girlie profile of the bow too much..

Looking good! If you put a clip on a rope, and a base pulley on your tiller assembly you can quickly take this shot without holding it at full draw for many seconds at a time..

Rich-

[backgardenbowyer]

Rich - one of the lessons of this build is that I need a better tiller arrangement for heavier bows!  This tiller just leans against the wall and I stick my knee against it when pulling the bow.  It's been fine so far with weights of 50lbs, but with this one my face ended up dangerous close to the whole arrangement when trying to pull heavy weights.  It's ergonomically awful and frankly not very safe.

Bob - trouble is I'm a wimp and can't pull it to my full drawn length, I'm only really managing about 60lbs! 

Hope to test shoot on Saturday and then put the nocks on and tweak things a little.

Stan

[backgardenbowyer]

I was able to test the bow yesterday at our field course - I always test before fitting nicks and making final adjustments.  Despite being only about 65lbs at 28" its as muc as I can handle at the moment and the temporary handle bidning gave me a blister.

It seems to shoot much faster and harder than my field bow at short range but the results were disappointing when I tested it for distance - only about 180yds with field arrows (4" shield fletchings, 100gr points), this is only a few yards further than my 50lbs bow.  Could it be that this is simply the limit for these arrows rather than the limit for the bow (ie the arrows won't go much further whatever you shot them from?).

What range should I expect with light arrows - I'm assuming it should do more the 200yds and was hoping for 220?

Horn nocks are now fitted and the bow has been shortened by about 3/4", so I've shaved some weight off the tips and outer limbs which looked a fraction stiff to me - I've seen some ipe bows with very delicate tips - its strong stuff!  Hope to check it on the tiller and then test this afternoon - weather permiting.

Stan

[markinengland]

Stan,
How wide are the tips? Ipe can take a lot of stress but is heavy. Skinny tips will help.
Mark in England

[backgardenbowyer]

Tips are now a fraction under 1/2" just below the nocks - about 9/16" deep to keep them stiff. I tested the bow agian today with the horn nocks (and slightly narrowed tips) a very lazy shot of slightly less than 27" draw and a bit too shallow,  with a 5" fletched arrow did just shy of 190yds - so we are getting there.  It's slightly shorter with the horn nocks fitted - about 71" nock to nock and the weight has risen a touch - if I crank it back close to 29" its about 72lbs, but at my usual draw lenght ofr field shooting (just over 27") it is about 65lbs and as much as I can manage.  Not quite a war bow but we are getting there.

I've just put a first layer of danish oil on the bow, which brings out the grain - and I can now see a hairline longitudinal crack about 1 1/2" long right in the middle of the bamboo running down from one nock.  This was there before but I just thought it was just a mark on the boo.  I'm thinking of drizzling a little super glue on it, but am hoping this is not serious as its right at the tip and right in the middle of the backing.

I'll get some picks posted as soon as I can.  Maybe I can still take a little thickness off the tips

[Rich Saffold]

Stan,You have too much wood on the outer limbs if your tips are that big, and it will keep your distance down..If a crack is running down the bamboo, superglue will usually get it,but it also means the bamboo got a little too dry at some point, but at the tips its not a big deal..

Rich

[backgardenbowyer]

HELP!

I've oiled the wood with Danish oil to bring out the grain and what looked like superficial blemishes on the bamboo backing now apear as cracks.  There is one I previously spotted right at the tip which doens't look serious, but I can now see two more - one on the top of a node (again I wouldn't have thought this serious) but the one that is worrying me is mid limb and consists of a series of tiny cracks which together run for 4" or 5" in a slight diagonal.  Somebody please tell me its not fatal!

The bamboo was the only piece I could get and had clearly stood in the weather a while.  This is more than a bit disturbing as the ipe is some of the best I've seen.

As there is now oil in the cracks super glue may not be all that effective - I'll try to strip the finish with some acetone to begin with.

Stan 

[bobnewboy]

HI Stan, are the cracks anything more than scratches?  That is, do they run deep into the bamboo?  I find that there is quite a bit of the waxy coat layer over the power fibres in the bamboo that I use, and certainly on the Holmegaard style bow which I made for Helene, the surface can be scraped quite a bit with no apparent ill effect.

//Bob

[backgardenbowyer]

Thanks Bob.  I'd already scraped the waxy natural "varnish" off the boo which was quite scratched.  These small cracks are under that surface.  They are clearly not very deep and I've scraped a little more off and just about got rid of them without cutting through the power fibers.

Panic over - probably....

Spent a lot of time on this bow and would really hate to see it blow at this stage.  I'm determined to have it finished next weekend.

Stan

[markinengland]

Stan,
Cracks that run down the bamboo don't seem to cause a problem. Cracks running across can be.
I have had similar problems with weathered bamboo. Even after that nasty noise (crack) and a splinter lifting and after Danish oil is put on all is not lost. I have bound a failry highly stressed bow with BYC450 at the point of the lift and the bow has carried on fine. Just keep an eye on it, run in some superglue and if it looks like that isn't working bind it.
Mark in England

[backgardenbowyer]

Thanks for the reassurance.

I've scraped a little deeper and the cracks have disappeared!

I'm detemined to have the bow finished this weekend but work does keep interfering with bowyery!  A little more scraping to lose weight near the tips, then the handle binding and finish.

The temporary single loop flemish string I used for initial tesing slipped continually but it was really made for a much longer bow so the timber hitch went above the laid in par at the bottom. I really hate making double loop flemish strings and after four goes one evening this week (all of which were, the wrong length, twited the wrong way or had the wrong sized loops) I've made a better single loop with extra strands in the braided part at the bottom and hope this holds.  (I'm uisng 2x7 strands, my attempt at 3x5 was like knitting a rubric's cube!).  I'll also make a contnuous string tonight (14 strands with reinforced loops) so that at least I have someting whcih can't slip.  Not made a continuous strong before but it looks easy peasey if you make a simple jig and have a serving tool

Picutes of finished item (or broken pieces!) promised this weekend.

Stan