Sanding jig for uniform diameter and roundness...?

[ssrhythm]

I'm in the process of straighening some dry Red Ozier and rose shoots, and I'm having questions about how to proceed.  These are my first shoot arrows other than rivercane.  River cane is pretty straight forward...straighten, cut to length where the spine is what you want, nock, fletch, tip and go.  For some reason I was thinking this would be similar, but I am realizing that the roundness is not nearly as uniform as cane, diameters are much more scattered than cane etc.  These are obviously going to need sanding, and I am trying to figure out the best way to do this without screwing up what I have so far.

I'm thinking I need to take a bout a 6" long block of and drill a hole lengthwise straight down the middle then cut the block lengthwise dead center of the hole.  I will then try to affix sandpaper inside each groove and use this block to sand the shoots to this diameter up and down the shaft.  Trying to do this without a jig is resulting in uneven sanding and poor results...and the indians did this with sandstone, so if they did it, it must be a good idea, right?  Anyway, what do y'all think the minimum diameter that hole should be with the sandpaper in place to give me some margin for error and have red ozier coming in at a minimum of 70 lb spine?  I will eventually make several different diameters decreasing in small increments, but I want to experiment with this first one and not be able to take the diameter so low that I overshoot ~ 70 lbs. 

If this is the wrong way to go here...opine.  Any advice on proceeding from the initial straightening toward finished arrow is much appreciated.

[Hawkdancer]

I made a jig(?) by drilling a series of holes starting at 1/2", down to 3/8" in a piece of hard maple.  Reduce the shafts with a thumb plane, then force them gently through the jig until you get to the desired diameter.  I believe this also helps burnish the shaft.  I think the "Indians" used 2 pieces of sandstone, but either way is still a lot of work.  If you make a jig using sandpaper, be sure to account for the thickness the sandpaper, it is a bit embarrassing to find out too late the shafts are too thin!(OPPS!).  Good luck!
Hawkdancer

[Pat B]

When I'm making arrows from red osier, sourwood, viburnum or cane I peel the bark where present, straighten, add the point and spin on my finger tip for trueness, fletch and shoot. Roundness never entered my mind.

[ssrhythm]

Pat, that is what I was thinking would happen when I eventually got around to making shoot arrows, and that might be a realistic method for me once I get back east and spend a couple of weeks cutting sourwood, wild rose, and other shoots; with the very limited supply of materials where I'm currently living (and confined to until March 1), I had to take what I could find, and I don't think I have but maybe two shoots of each material that are close to matching in diameter.  Fortunately, most of the dogwood shoots are large enough in diameter that they will all come in way too stiff even if I leave them excessively long.  That said, I'm wanting to reduce them to roughly the same diameter (slightly larger than my intended goal) so that I can then cut them to the same length (still extra long) and spine test and weigh them to determine their consistency with each other.  They are all from the same patch of red ozier, so I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised with consistency. 

I've thought about this overnight, and I'm thinking I will need to drill the hole, cut the block, then maybe use a tapered round file to taper the hole so that the last 2" of the small end will be the target diameter.  I could then feed the shaft through the jig sanding away material, and once the entire shaft is through, it should be a consistent diameter with a nice round cross-section.  I am going to try it, and I'll post pics if it works well.  From there, I can reduce with sanding until I get them to a spine and tinker with length and point weight until I get them matched to my bow.

[ssrhythm]

Thanks Hawkdancer.  I will difinitely make a sizing board like you describe as a guide during the process of making these shoot arrows, but I'm just trying to figure out the best way to achieve the reduction with consistency.  I have limited to no wood working experience beyond what I've gained by making osage selfbows over the last two years.  I have my grandads old belt sander, table saw, and some of his old block planes, but beyond that, my experience is limited to a drawknife, hand saw, and sandpaper.  I tried to use the block plane to  on the belly of one of the osage staves I was reducing, and I obviously dont know how to adjust and use it...it was comical and quickly abandoned, so I have no clue about thumb planes or how to apply one to my current project.  I will look on youtube and see if I can figure that process out, and I may go that route. 

Also, I'm not exactly sure how I am supposed to reference "Native Americans" or "Indians!"  I have a buddy in town that is Native American, and he proudly says that he is "Indian."  I have another friend in town who you would't know has any Native American ancestory that we often buy cool natural jewelery from at his house.  He makes various jewelry from spruce cones, flowers, bone, and even dried animal poop.  My wife, chilren, mother-in-law, and I were in his place looking at his newest jewelery during a tour of homes last summer, and my son saw a beautiful bronze statue and said "mama, can we buy that cool indian figurene?"  Well, he heard this and it was quite obvious that this offended him and he corrected my son by saying "we prefer to be refered to as Native American."  Then, I see books such as "Overstreet Indian Arrowhead ID and Price Guide" as well as multiple references by folks in the TBB series and other publications who not only respect, but greatly revere the "Indians" and their culture that they are referencing and attempting to learn from. 

As for me, I am a whiter than white decendant from Irish ancestors born and rasied in the southeastern USA, and all I know and can tell folks is that I tended to pull for the "Indians" when watching the "Cowboy and Indian" shows that, in my youth, dominated the 3 channels that were sometimes available when the weather was right."
I pulled for them, not because of any socio-political reasons (as I was 3-6yo and blissfully unaware of any), but because they were the ones shooting bows and arrows, and that was incredibly cool to me for some reason.  Now, I'm finally in a place in my life where I can try to make and hunt with self bows and arrows and hopefully one day my own knapped points.  I have tremendous respect for the original people who lived in harmony with and thrived on this continent. 

That said, I am absolutely repulsed by the shallow, insincere explosion of PC BS and the creation and expansion of groups of people who claim to be offended by God only knows what. 
Native Americans/American Indians, however, do NOT fall into the category that I view as PC BS.  I would never, have never, and will never intentionally do or say anything that is offensive to anyone, and I appologize if using the term "Indian" in reference to "Native Americans" offended anyone,  but as I stated earlier, from my interaction with someone who is a self proclaimed, "full-blooded Indian" to very white people with Native American heritage, I'm not exactly sure what to say.  I actually thought about what to type when I initially typed "Indians."  I thought about typing "Native Americans," because that would have definitely been the "safer" option; then I decided against that, because I did not want to be viewed as someone who was trying to be PC for PCs sake. 

So, I appologize again if that was offensive to anyone, and I'm all ears and willing to learn why I should or should not be using either of the terms; I truly desire to gain a bit of clarity that my real life interactions have yet been able to provide.

In the mean time, I may just use the term BAOA for "bad-ass-original-Americans," because I actually saw someone from Harvard on CNN saying the term "Native" was offensive to her...or they...hell, I don't know anymore!  I'm so confused...I need a whisky!

[Pat B]

I think if you are respectful when you talk to Native Americans and if they don't like the name you use just apologize and use what they prefer. Everyone's a little different about these things. We have a few Native Americans here on PA and I have heard them refer to themselves as NDNs.
 If your shoots are oval just use the stiff side against the bow, that is what you should do anyway.
 I think the board Jerry was talking about is only for sizing the shaft. You can get a metal plate and drill different size, graduating size holes and drive the shoot through a hole and gradually go down in size until you get the shaft size you want. This is called a draw plate and was commonly used for dowel making.
 mI bought a small thumb plane that I use to reduce oversize shoots. I made a jig with a board with a "V" cut lengthwise the center and a wood stop at the end that I use sometimes or else I just hold the shoot in one hand and run the thumb plane down the shoot using my thumb underneath to support the shoot. Both of these methods can be a bit awkward but you'll get used to it.