Author Topic: A new Roman arrow firing machine  (Read 23885 times)

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Offline Dane

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A new Roman arrow firing machine
« on: May 02, 2008, 05:25:04 pm »
Man, I hope this works. Last few times I tried to post photos, nothing but problems.

Some of you may recall the manuballista I am building. Essentially, the woodwork is done on that, and I will continue the thread once I get the bronze casting done.

In the meantime, here is a second machine, a much more powerful one with 2" springs and firing 18" arrows, at what I estimate will be 1,000 pounds of pull. The maximum range of this machine maybe around 250 to 300 yards, but effective range will probably be in the area of 100 to 150 yards. As you can clearly see, the machine is far from complete, and once I chisel out the last two double moritises for the two inner stancions, I can glue it together, true up all the sides, and then sheath the frame in steel, which is already cut but not drilled for bolts or rivets, one of two ways I will attach the metal sheathing. It is critical that the basic jointry be as strong as I can make it, as safety is clearly a factor. If you have had a bow explode, you know how exciting that is. If one of these explodes, it can be ugly. :)

I expect this machine to be ready for testing in mid to late summer. The manuballista will come sooner.

Attached too is a Google SketchUp drawing of the machine. It is a free program, and a lot of fun, as well as useful. Davenport the Pug is helping out in showing size comparisons. I'm goint to post pictures one at a time, so forgive me. I have yet to get my picture act together.

Dane





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Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2008, 05:26:48 pm »
Another shot, this one of myself holding the spring frame. Henry's Tacos is awesome, and if you are ever in my old neighborhood, go there :)

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Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2008, 05:32:59 pm »
As you can see, I still have to finish two tenons, and then true up everything. It looks rougher with the digital camera flash then in person. The area you see chiseled out on the inner sides of each counter or inner stanchions will be where the case and dovetailed slider fit into the machine. I'm casting a bronze frame and pin to pin the entire case assembly together, as was done with a machine found in the 19th century in Caminreal, Spain. The entire machine, then, will break down for easy assembly and disassembly in field or battlefield conditions.

If all of this is confusing, I've been carefully documenting the entire design and building process, and will eventually post a thread so you can see how the project goes, including testing.

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Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2008, 10:26:44 am »
Here is a in-progress drawing of the trigger assembly. I am designing it to be cast and bolted to the slider. I suppose the parts can be forge welded as well, not sure, but my blacksmith will advise me. These parts will be cast from bronze, as I don't have iron working skills and want to do as much as I can myself, and keep the work as close to the practices (as far as we can tell 2,000+ years later) of the ancient world as possible.

The design I am working on closely follows Heron's (a Greek engineer) description of a cheiroballistra trigger. The cheiroballistra is a very advanced iron-framed machine depicted on Trajan's Column, and is the last major development in torsion-powered war machines from the classical period. The wooden ones I am concentrating on are much earlier designs, but it is assumed they were used wiell into the Empire period.

These parts are for my smaller manuballistas / scorpio-minors / small or lesser scorpions, but will be easily adaptable for use on the larger 2" machines, as well as a future gastraphetes, or belly bow, which is on my future list of projects to undertake. Notice the use of a linear or sawtooth ratchet on the sides of the weapon's case. This was, to the best of my knowledge, a system favored by the Greeks, the Romans having introduced the circular ratchet. The 2" machine will use the circular ratchet system, while the hand held machines will use the earlier linear ratchets.

By the way, if anyone feels that these arrow firing machines do not belong in PA (I myself debate whether this constitutes primitive archery as we think of it, but do feel it does), let me know, and I'll quit posting about them.

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Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline hawkbow

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2008, 11:30:39 am »
very cool, looks a little heavy for hunting though.. ;D ;) Hawk
IT IS BETTER TO LOSE WITH HONOR. THAN TO WIN THROUGH DECEPTION...


Mike "Hawk" Huston

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2008, 03:35:14 pm »
Thanks, Hawk. You'd only use these for killing humans, of course. They were powerful enough to penetrate any known armor and shields of 2,000 years ago.
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

jamie

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 11:30:29 pm »
cooooooollll ya gonna bring one down this year to test fire on the range

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 09:31:36 pm »
Hi Jamie. Thanks man. I am really looking forward to this year's event. First weekend in June, yes?

I will bring the machines, even if I don't have them finished. Wish they were, but the death of my dad and a few other things set back my schedule quite a bit. I'm still trying to get back into my normal routine in some respects.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

jamie

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2008, 06:38:16 am »
looking forward to havin ya come down again. very sorry to hear about your father. peace

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2008, 03:25:04 pm »
Thanks, Jamie. It will be great to go back to your club and hang out and learn how to / make primitive stuff. Thanks about my dad. We die because we live.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

bow kid44

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2008, 05:49:15 pm »
looks like a good security system >:D!!!

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2008, 10:09:17 pm »
Lol. If a burglar was caught at the wrong end of these machines, he would find himself pinned to a wall through his spinal column. Serve him right too.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2008, 09:44:34 am »
 Happily, the mortise and tenon work on the spring frame (capitulum in Latin) is behind me. There are a total of 16 mortises, 8 on each of the two hole carriers (tabula, the top and bottom parts of the capitulum with the 2" holes bored through them for the rope springs). It was very enjoyable making these (I found that working with a wooden mallet and chisels is really relaxing mentally, and the world fades away as it is just me and the project in the shop. You know what I mean, I think), though I am glad I am finished with them, as well. This skill will come in handy in a variety of ways in the future, I'm sure.

Dane

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« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 09:48:33 am by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2008, 09:45:36 am »
One more shot, illustrating the mortises and tenons.

Dane

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Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: A new Roman arrow firing machine
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2008, 09:50:05 am »
Oh, sorry about the double photo posting. I edited the post, and thought I had to re-attach the image.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts