Various natural shoots arrow material, where it grows, how to ID them all.

[ssrhythm]

Howdy.  So, I'm relatively new to primitive archery building and hunting...started making stuff to hunt with 2 years ago, and this is my first year hunting with equipment I built.  As far as arrows go, I'm making rivercane arrows from a batch of cane I cut while visiting SC where I grew up.  I vastly underestimated the number of pieces I needed to cut to end up with an adequate amount of suitable shafts.  I ended up with 20 or so shafts that, depending on point weight, would tune well to my bow.  So, now I am trying to figure out what all I have around me and can find in places I visit annually that I can make arrows out of.  I'm currently living in SE Wyoming.  I have a couple of shrubs in my front yard (rental) that I think are vibernum...they have growth that looks like they will make arrows, and I am going to cut some next year (need to grow a bit longer).  I will post pics to see if someone can ID the bushes.

That said, I visit SC at least annually, and I visit my buddy in the mountains and my family in the midlands.  The cane I cut was from midlands riverbottom.  I've read that there are three varieties of rivercane and the "hill-cane" is the best for arrows.  How, other than location, can I identify the hill variety?  Do I need to be spending more time looking for and harvesting cane when I'm in the mountains vs going after the midlands cane?  I found that the midland cane had more severe nodal angles that were prone to failure when trying to get them straight.

Is there vibernum in SE wyoming, and if so, is it any good for shafts?  There appears to be a vast variety of species of vibernum.  Which is the best for arrows, how do I identify it, and where does it grow?  So, you know I visit SC and live in WY...I also go to Ohio and Indiana each year to hunt and cut Osage.  What do I need to be looking for a regarding arrow shafts in central IN and SE Ohio...and how do I ID it?

I can't remember exactly where I've run into wild rose, but after looking at pics, I can certainly remember times where I've either run into it (literally) and cursed it harshly or saw it and thought..."thank God I didn't catch that in the face walking in."  I'm sure I'll find it in SC or OH or IN, and it is an option that really intrigues me...don't know why, but I think there is something really fascinating about the possibility of making arrows from rose shoots.  As far as ID goes, I'll likely run into it in the fall when I'm hunting...what do I need to know about rose?  I figure that if I run into a long, straight, evil looking thorny shoot, it'll likely make a good arrow...am I wrong? 

In a nutshell... In Wyoming and surrounding areas...what do I need to be looking for and how do ID it.
Same for SC, IN, and OH.  Any help/advice appreciated.

[Pat B]

Where in the SC Mountains and midlands?
Switch cane(Arundaneria tecta) is probably what you are cutting in the midlands of SC. It grows to 6'-7' in height and about 3/8" or slightly less in diameter and makes very good arrows. Hill cane(A. appalachiana)only grows in the Southern Appalachian Mountains. It is very similar to switch cane in size but is deciduous(other native canes are not), it's culm(cane) is rounder, has denser walls, smaller sulcus(indentation at a node) and less pronounced nodes. River cane (A. gigantia) is the 3rd native cane. It grows to about 16' tall and is 3/4" in diameter. You can make arrows from the smaller diameter at the top of the culms but the nodes and sulcus are more prominent so less appropriate for arrows. Many folks use the name "river cane" for most other canes used for arrows, native or not... a generic term.
 I don't know about Wyoming vegetation but you should be able to find native viburnum in SC(blackhaw and arrowwood)mountains and maybe midlands too. These or other viburnums should be in OH and IN too. Sourwood(Oxydendrum arboreum) is my favorite shoot shaft and it grows in the mountains and midlands of SC. Also look for red osier dogwood in OH and IN in wet wooded areas and silky dogwood in SC along creeks and rivers..

[Hawkdancer]

Might find red osier in the riparian zone, also river birch, likely some wild rose, mountain mahogany, service berry, as well as some landscape replant shrubs that could be thinned for shafts.  A Wyoming Tree/shrub I'd book would be handy.  Where in SE Wyoming are you?  I am down the road in Chappell, NE, 120 miles east of Cheyenne.
Hawkdancer

[ssrhythm]

I’m in Wheatland since 2018, and I plan to be here for the long haul.  Found out by pure chance that this is likely the most underrated whitetail spot on Earth.  Merriams in spring and fall, cranes, & ducks...not to mention the big game Wyoming is actually known for...this place is Heaven.  I’m stuck within a 20 minute radius of town and can only hunt where I have cell service, because I’m on call 24/7 until March 1, yet I’ve had the best deer season in all of my 52 years.  Once I figure out where snd when to find morels and learn which boletes to pick and figure out which shoots to cut snd work into arrows, I’ll be good to go.  I know I’ve seen the red ozier dogwood in IN and OH.  I’ll figure out stuff to use out here.  I think I’ve been cutting switch and giganticus in the midlands.  My buddy lives on the tugaloo river and is just a hop away from the Chatooga, so the cane I’ve seen there must be hull cane.
Thanks for the feedback.

[ssrhythm]

Can anyone ID these bushes?

[ssrhythm]

Nm

[Pat B]

THe one with the yellow/green bark could be a dogwood similar to red osier, the other possibly hazel.

[GlisGlis]

As far as ID goes, I'll likely run into it in the fall when I'm hunting...what do I need to know about rose?  I figure that if I run into a long, straight, evil looking thorny shoot, it'll likely make a good arrow...am I wrong? 

they make good arrow shafts though it is pretty difficult to know how much pith they have so bettere collect more than you need and make a spine selection afterward
every brush tend to produce long shoots that usually are bent
this is not a problem
i cut the shoots longer than needed and remove all the thorns. I also remove all bark except the last 1 or 2 inches at tips
I straighten all my shoots by hand (no heat) and tie them toghether in bundles of 10 - 12
every other day for a couple weeks untie, straighten and bundle again. this will ensure that all shaft will be straights  when dry
depending on weather conditions shaft will produce checks at tips and occasional short checks along the length of the shaft
I remove the checked tips and do not bother at all for the checks along the shaft. they add character and I never found it a structural problem
cut to dimension and sand it. done

[Pat B]

I made a viburnum arrow a few years ago and out of ignorance I stripped the bark while they were green. They checked badly but I made an arrow anyway. Once dry and straight they remained straight and I think the checks acted like lightning grooves that some NA groups added to their arrow shafts. I think that the edges of the checks hardened more than the rest of the shaft adding rigidity and helped to keep them straight.
 Sourwood shoots, on the other hand don't check when the bark is stripped, even green. I actually strip the bark with the back of my pruners as I cut them. I've done this and laid the stripped shaft under my wood stove for a few days to dry with nary a check and the sourwood shoot was dry enough to make an arrow. Saying this I still prefer to season arrow shafting just like bow wood and give them a year or 2(or more) to season. These well seasoned shoots make the best arrows.

[ssrhythm]

Good info...thanks.  I can definitely get at some sourwood.

[aznboi3644]

I usually strip the bark off my viburnum shoots and never have a problem with them checking if I seal the ends.  They make super tough arrows and good bows also.  I’ve missed my target bag and had viburnum shoot arrows go full speed into the brick siding of my House to only have the front 1/2” of shaft crushed.  Nothing else damaged.  They are my favorite shoots.  They are planted all over the place here as ornamental bushes. 

[Pat B]

The best place to find sourwood shoots in SC is along road cuts. The Hwy Dept bushhogs those road banks every 3 or 4 years and after the second year you will see their shoots standing straight up. This time of year the leaves are bright red so they are easy to find. Cut onlt shoots with small branches at the top and not just leaves. I've cut a few hundred shoots in a few hours in about a 1/4 mile section here in the mountains. Hwy 11, The Cherokee Scenic Highway, along the base of the mountains has lots of these banks with lots of sourwood shoots on them.

[Jakesnyder]

Can you harvest hardwood shoots in winter time?

[Pat B]

That's the best time. IMO.

[ssrhythm]

Ok...Since starting this thread, I have found four types of natural arrow shoots that I have cut and brought home.  One, I'm fairly sure, is red ozier dogwood, one is a mix of various domestic rose shoots from around town, one is some other type of green-barked dogwood, and one is some type of viburnum (I think) or viburnum-ish shrub. 

After a couple of weeks of drying in bundles with occasional non-heat straightening, all but the roses seemed just about as wet and pliable as they did when they were cut.  I took one of the viburnum-ish shoots and scraped the bark off except for two inches on each end.  Within 24 hours, that shoot was obviously drying and stiffening significantly.  Within 36 hours, a crack opened and continued until it was 6' long and very deep.  I now know that I can't rush that particular shoot and seasoning will take a long time.

So I'm nearly a month out on the rose harvest (those were the most recently harvested shoots), and the red ozier and the green-barked dogwood-ish shoots seem as if they are just as wet as when I cut them.  I have had them inside our house where the humidity level is lower than the already low humidity outside our home here is SE Wyoming.  At this rate, those shoots won't be dry and stiffening up for ages.  Is this normal for shoots like this?
I'm going to strip at bark on one of the red dogwood like shoots and one of the green to see if I can speed up the process and see if they split horribly like the other shoot did.  Any suggestions on the proper way to season dogwood shoots is much appreciated.

The rose seem to be drying out and stiffening up pretty nicely.  I can still bend them without heat and straighten them and they will now actually stay put after I work them...all the others will bend in all sorts of manners but are still so wet that they won't stay for two seconds.  I think the MC is low enough in the roses that I can strip the bark except for an inch or two at the end without too much concern over them opening up significant cracks.

With all that said...Can someone with lots of experience with various shoot arrows please try to list their experience with various shoot seasoning techniques and times.  For instance...I've read that with rose, you can fairly quickly strip the bark without having to worry about significant cracking and drying checks.  How about with red-ozier dogwood?  Viburnum (especially if different techniques and times are necessary for different species)?  Sourwood?  Crepe Myrtle? Ocean Spray?  ANYTHING that you've ever used for shoot arrows.  Thanks in advance.