New project-hackberry

[paulc]

Bownarra, you're thinking that parallel for the full length is not the best idea..?  I was thinking parallel for as much length as possible to have the load carried by as much wood as possible.  Sounds like you think that might over-stress the fades/inners?

I will try to get a pic of the damage to the back of the bow later tonight.

Paul

[SLIMBOB]

My opinion, 72 inches is long. 28 inch draw is average. You can go parallel. The tiller won’t be round but elliptical, bending more as you move from the fades. You will have a lot of bow in the middle not working much, but you won’t be trying to throw all that wood forward. The bend will be mid Limb out, but done right the power will be in the mid inner limbs.

[paulc]

Slimbob et al...here is the damage on the back.  It is of course located where the fade fades into the limb....

Thanks for the help.  Paul

[SLIMBOB]

If it were Osage I would sand it smooth and forget it.  Just not sure on Hackberry.  Where will it be on the bow?  In the handle, no problem.  Mid limb, a concern.  I am tempted to say sand it and forget it but rawhide is a safer option.  See what others offer up.

[paulc]

It is pretty much the fade...the knot on left is in the handle with fade happening to the right....P

[SLIMBOB]

The fade wont bend so I would sand and forget.  I will caution you that rawhide is safer and doing what I suggest could fail spectacularly, but I think you will be OK.

[PEARL DRUMS]

My two cents. Whether its actually worth that much, I don't know.

I wouldn't back it, rawhide wont prevent blow up's, just tiny splinters on occasion and its heavy and slow. That being said, all fades do bend some. Its not enough to worry. I would wrap sand paper around my finger and sand all the edges of that divot smooth and round. Then continue on and enjoy the build.

[Josh B]

I agree 72" is a bit long.  If it were my build I would cut a few inches off one end so that it centered the divot in the handle.  Of course that is assuming you have enough thickness to shift the center.
As far as the parallel limb width is concerned, I understand your line of thought behind it.  However it's a flawed logic. The reason bows taper toward the tips is leverage. The load on the limbs decrease from the center outward.  By leaving the limbs wide further out, you will have to make them progressively thinner to get them to work properly and yet they will still have more mass than a limb that tapers in width. Even with an elliptical tiller it will be less efficient.

[paulc]

Hello All, please see attached pics.  I roughed out the stave yesterday and got it to bounce a bit on the floor-In my limited understanding of all this that is floor tillering :-)  I ended up tapering the limb width rather that going with parallel limbs...I honestly don't understand the physics of it but I think staying away from elliptical tiller is probably in my best interest at this point in my understanding of bow building.

I then toasted the heck out of the belly- I still need to shape the tips and cut string grooves before I start tillering on the tree.  But please see the pics and comment.  There is a layer of bad wood on the belly that extends from one limb through the handle and shows up a tiny bit in the other limb.  There is a good bit of damaged wood on the upper limb but my hope is that is mostly scrapes off as I tiller...thoughts?  Is this stave dead already?  Wish I had photo'ed it before toasting as it would be a lot clearer...

Silmbob in particular, but everyone- Bob you said at some point on this board that you tend to start working tips first-get them to bend a bit and then work your way towards the fades?  Is that right and can you talk a bit more about that?  What are other schools of thought of how to progress on the tiller?

And the handle seems pretty clunky to me at this point-I say the handle and fades are about 12" now.  I can get them down to 10" right?  Simply make it smaller?  General comments on current handle shape and layout?

Thanks!  Paul

[paulc]

2 more pics

[SLIMBOB]

Not the tips first.  What I mean is don't get the fades (near fade) bending early.  That's last for me.  I want it to bend right up to the fade when it's finished, but bending there too early is a problem.  Get it bending an inch or 2 beyond the fades, all the way to the near tips (assuming stiff tips).  Get that bending in a nice arc and matched limb to limb.  The last few inches of draw length for me is bringing the bend up to the fade.  Too early there and you will come in under weight trying to play catch up with the rest of the limb.  You have to have it happen first before it completely makes sense I think.

Few additional thoughts...The bad wood is what it is.  All you can do is see if you will get past it.  I think you will.  Just a guess though.  The handle at this point should be decided and it appears to me it is.  I would tiller without further regard for the handle at this point..  Read the other "Hackberry" post near this one for a description of what I would do next.  I didn't invent any of this, claim that it is "THE" way, nor necessarily the best way, it's just the way I do it and it works well as wellas being easy to describe over the internet. 

[paulc]

Thanks so much for feedback.

Paul

[SLIMBOB]

Hey, your at the "bow making" stage now.  Everything before this was furniture making.  This is the fun part...the difficult part...the deciding part.  This part was the reason my finish work was never really good.  I just lost interest when the tillering was done.

[Deerhunter21]

is that wood heat treated or is that rotted, or bad wood? Cant really tell. if its bad wood just hope that you get past it. then heat treat the wood. if not to help the bow, do it to make your workshop smell good!

[paulc]

It's both deerhunter....hopefully most of the damaged wood will scrape away as I tiller.

Best of luck with your hackberry project!

Paul