Cracks between growth rings

[jhoang719]

Hi everyone!

 I recently got this Osage stave and there are cracks between the growth rings. The person I got the stave from glued the cracks to see if they travelled any further and they didn't. The stave is already shaved down to a single growth ring on the back. Can this stave still make a bow? Do I keep going down growth rings until there aren't cracks? The stave is 60" long, 2.5" wide, and 2" thick. The growth rings are about 1/4" thick.

Cheers, Jonathan

[jhoang719]

Another area that had a crack

[SLIMBOB]

I don't see the cracks, having said that, a delam is not good if that's what you got.  A crack along the early growth between the rings?  That's a delamination.  I think moisture gets in between the rings and some decay takes place in the early growth.  I have one with that very problem from a few years ago.  I filled with CA glue and and it's never been a problem.  Better picture is needed to make a good call on it.

[bjrogg]

I'm thinking I'd go below the delamination. I'll go with a drying check but delamination I'd try to avoid. I'm guessing Clint will give his advice. It's probably better than mine. It'd help to have the stave in my hand to really evaluate it properly.
Bjrogg

[sleek]

Split it in half along that delam. If you got enough wood you can use it to build a laminate bow, if not, you didn't loose anything. As it is, it's no good. Check for more, if it has one, it may have more. Looks kinda like a wind check k. Those kill bows.

[jhoang719]

Thanks for chiming in guys! These are on the early growth between rings so I guess it is delamination. Still kinda new with terminology and such. The areas between the delamination are filled with super glue.  There are a few areas on the stave that have these delaminations.

[osage outlaw]

I would not trust those cracks in a bow limb.  I would remove them if you can.

[bjrogg]

I'm thinking like sleek said but hard to know for sure from pictures. If it's all the same ring I'd try to do like sleek said and split it off. Just use a couple big flat screwdrivers and pry off the delamination. Then chase ring on the belly split. I'm guessing it's a wind check to. Hopefully it doesn't go to deep.
Bjrogg
Like Clint said I'd try to get under that delamination.

[jhoang719]

Cool. Looks like the worst delamination is two rings down and there is still gonna be a workable stave beyond those rings. i'm gonna try and get under
 the delamination and go from there. Thanks for the advice guys. Wish me luck!

[Dances with squirrels]

I think delamination is the wrong term to use for such a crack. Those aren't delams. A bow can only DElaminate if its first been laminated, imo. To me they look like regular drying checks.

Staves can get drying checks anywhere. Back, belly, ends, or sides. If they do get drying checks, WHERE they get them depends on other factors like wood type, whether the bark and sapwood was left on, how, how quickly they were dried, width and thickness while it dried, and more. I've seen perfectly good, beautiful staves, left with the bark on and dried too quickly acquire drying checks just like yours, while others from the same log, that instead had the bark, sapwood, and excess width and belly wood removed earlier, and dried more slowly, were perfectly fine.

I wouldn't make a bow with even one of those checks in it. If I can remove all of it, fine, I'll use it. If there are too many or one is in a real bad spot and can't be removed without ruining it for use as bow wood, I'd burn it. If it was one I paid for, I'd get reimbursed.

[Eric Krewson]

Here is my finding; If you use that stave and get below the cracks more will show up and your bow will fail. I have had 100% failure in bows with side checks. I now consign side check wood to the tool handle pile, the wood doesn't have structural integrity.

I sinewed a bow that had a few side check in the handle section that I had worked down past the checks. Surprise, Surprise, the sinew delaminated the wood.

[PatM]

I think delamination is the wrong term to use for such a crack. Those aren't delams. A bow can only DElaminate if its first been laminated, imo. To me they look like regular drying checks.

Staves can get drying checks anywhere. Back, belly, ends, or sides. If they do get drying checks, WHERE they get them depends on other factors like wood type, whether the bark and sapwood was left on, how, how quickly they were dried, width and thickness while it dried, and more. I've seen perfectly good, beautiful staves, left with the bark on and dried too quickly acquire drying checks just like yours, while others from the same log, that instead had the bark, sapwood, and excess width and belly wood removed earlier, and dried more slowly, were perfectly fine.

I wouldn't make a bow with even one of those checks in it. If I can remove all of it, fine, I'll use it. If there are too many or one is in a real bad spot and can't be removed without ruining it for use as bow wood, I'd burn it. If it was one I paid for, I'd get reimbursed.

 I think folks are just using the term lamination to describe a growth ring as a natural lamination laid down by the tree with the early growth representing the glue.

 It's not really an inaccurate description.

[SLIMBOB]

Respectfully disagree with Mr. Squirrel, but only in the academic sense.  Drying checks are just that, checks or splits in the wood cause by the wood drying and causing uneven forces in the wood which pull it apart along the grain.  Shakes are a different animal that are present in the wood before you start the drying process.  They used to be called "wind shakes" as it was thought that these were caused by the wind.  The research now indicates that they are areas of decay caused by bacteria.  The term "delam" simply indicates that what God joined together, the two hardwood rings, is separating along the early wood that binds them together.  In the final analysis we agree mostly.  These are a bow killer in most cases.  Best advice is to get beyond them if possible.  Again, I cant see the shakes in the pics, so I offer no prescription on yours.  I agree with the consensus that they are bad news.

Edit....I say that I agree that they are bow killers and I do believe they are bad news, but this is only because most everyone that has dealt with them will tell you that.  Personally, I have only dealt with one and it is still shooting today.

[Selfbowman]

If like Eric's pic it's trash. If small say 6" long I have run a single edge razor blade I the crack and filled with thin supper glue and clamped with good success. Arvin

[George Tsoukalas]

That looks like a drying check. I've made bows with drying checks that lasted and shot just fine.
Remove it if you can though.
It does not look like it is between the rings which is a different story and unusable.
Jawge