Too much positive tiller?

[cool_98_555]

Hi guys,

I'm just curious as to wether or not there is a maximum amount of positive tiller.  I have had bows that seemed to have way too much positive tiller but have shot really nice and smooth.  I've had others that have had very minimal positive tiller that have not shot so smooth.  Anybody have a number they don't like to go over?

[Stick Bender]

I shoot for 1/8 positive but on the last one ended up at 3/16  and was fine ,I think if you get to positive the limb timing would be a bit off.

[cool_98_555]

Ok so you would say no more than 3/16" as a rule based on your experience?

[PEARL DRUMS]

Balance is all that matters. Providing the tiller is correct.

[Stick Bender]

I really don't know if there is a canned answer it depends on the bow like PD said balanced the last bow that I mentioned at 1 point was 1/4 positive and it shot funny could feel slight thump in the hand and it was a a short bow and light mass for my draw but when I readjusted it to 1/16 more positive it shot fine  I have a bendy bow that is slightly negative tiller and it shoots fine and seems well balanced my main concern is the arrow flying right and not scraping my knuckle

[bradsmith2010]

if the arrow flies right and does not scrape your knuckle,, you are pretty good,, the measurment is secondary,,

[Dances with squirrels]

Try this. Don't even measure it.

Usually, especially with wooden bows, those measurements are not only arbitrary, they're misleading and misrepresentative. Try it. Make a bow. Completely resist the temptation to measure it at brace. Tiller it so it's balanced relative to your holds at full draw and ONLY measure it when the bow is complete.... if you must, so you know whether or not the tiller changes during shooting in. Most folks can't do it. The need to use those measurements as a beacon for their efforts is overwhelming. And that's too bad because it's usually a false prophet.

[bradsmith2010]

Squirrels,, thats a great post, thanks,,

[cool_98_555]

What if it "looks" like its too positive without even measuring?

[bentstick54]

The important question is how does it shoot? Does it have any hand shock? I am a novice compared to a lot of guys, only having made 10 or 11 Osage bows, but have never measured tiller on any of them. Every one is basically the same design, but each is unique. I go by how the bow looks at full draw, and how it feels upon release of arrow.

[Bryce]

Defends on the bow. For my purposes it's usually 1/8" to 1/4"

[Mo_coon-catcher]

I've never measured it. But if there is a side that is a bit stronger, I'll put it on the bottom. I try to keep the tiller nice and even until I'm a few inche's shy of full draw. Then as I ease it in and start shooting it in. I'll close my eyes and just feel how the bow is drawing back. If it's nice and smooth without wanting too pull one way or the other. And it releases smoothly. Ten I call it done and finish shooting/samding it. It it pulls one way or the other, then I scrape or sand the side it dips towards. This also seems to get rid of the remaining thump and noise left in it.
Arond that, I've never measures the difference.

Kyle

[bradsmith2010]

I like for it to look like it has positive tiller,, but if the full draw is right,, and then the brace profile,, does not look right,, I go with what the full draw is doing,, and like said, how it shoots is most important,,

[Pappy]

I agree that if it shoot good and is right at full draw brace tiller really doesn't matter but have also found if brace tiller is right unless you are working with some character wood the rest will usually follow suite and be right or very close. I like 1/8 to 1/4.
 Pappy

[Dances with squirrels]

"brace tiller is right". To my mind, the tiller measurements can't be right or wrong in and of themselves. Tiller is ONLY 'right' at brace if it's dynamically balanced at full draw. And "right" tiller can/should be positive, equal, or negative, and vary a good bit from shooter to shooter or bow to bow, even if they're straight bows with no character.

The 'if it shoots good I must have done something right' line of thinking sounds a lot like 'I must have got lucky', and isn't predictable and straightforward enough. I want to take luck out of the equation as much as possible. I also don't want to move nock points or change how I hold the bow to suit 'off' tiller. I want to know in advance that each bow, character or not, will be inherently tuned before the first arrow is shot, while held the way preferred, with the nock point set exactly where intended from the beginning. That's not possible if I make them all 1/8" positive, for instance.