Ocean Spray question

[vinemaplebows]

Sounds like a well thought out method but why wait to seal the ends? If you are after a slow dry anyway why sacrifice a few inches of length? Especially when long OS staves are rare.
 I was stacking mine in a corner outside my shop door under cover for the first month or so but I noticed a bit of mildew on a couple. A little too slow maybe.

When you say it molded was that bark on , or like shown in the pics above?

[DC]

I tidied up my staves a couple of days ago and now I can't find them. They would have been cut to the pith but some I left the bark on and some I didn't. The mildew was on the belly. It wasn't bad, it was just starting to turn greyish in spots. A little bit better air circulation would have stopped it.

[steve b.]

I think its just characteristic of OS to check.  Partly because it is OS but also because it is dense and yet small diameter.  Other good bow woods of similar size check less or not at all.  I guess if you are dying for an unchecked rigid handle you could go to great lengths to slow dry the handle, maybe two years or whatever, but I'm not convinced that it is a slow drying issue as it is an "even" drying issue and is different from stave to stave.  In my experience I can cut any living OS and have it flinging arrows in 6 weeks or less.  I've done it in 4 weeks and the bow took no set.  So I just open up the handle during initial tiller and then deal with the handle when the times comes, either lamming it or letting it bend. 

If the limbs take no set then the moisture in the handle can't be that big of an issue--whether its drying too fast outside vs. inside, etc.   I have roughed brand new OS staves and tried to burn the shavings.  They do not burn very well.  24 hours later the same shavings make good kindling.  They are drying fast, laying on a concrete floor in an unheated building in the winter of Oregon.  So a stave averaging .7" thickness tip to tip is not going to hold alot of moisture if it is 60% RH environment for a week or more.

So the wood itself is nothing special regarding density.  Warm it up and it dries like anything else.  Initially (the first week only), you have to control the drying so it won't check.  After that you can introduce it to normal room temperatures and it will dry without checking.

Here's a pre and post pic of what I'd do with split handles.  The lower is bow from last year that I sliced and glued.  The handle popped off so you can see the epoxy just filled the void.  I think OS needs to be prep'd better for laming or sinewing.  Everything pops off easily.  You have to degrease and/or rough it up.
The upper pic is a stave I cut a month or so ago.  I kerf'd the handle and watch it.  The kerf showed signs of increased checking so I put two coats of wood glue on the whole bow, then weighed it.   It is at floor tiller and weighed 1 3/4 pounds.  Two weeks later it weighed 1 1/2 pounds and continues to NOT lose any weight.  This is the initial drying I'm talking about.  It is done checking, guaranteed.  I will scrape off the glue and introduce it to room temps and in a week or so will make a bow without set.

[steve b.]

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[DC]

If you are just talking about the limbs I agree 100%. Handles are something else. I just had a bow that was over a year old with an insert in the handle. I wanted to touch it up to give to a kid at the range. I left it in the shop overnight and the handle split. Another roughed out stave I gave to Shofu was at least 6 months drying and the handle had not split. He took it home to a more humid environment and the handle split in a few days.

[steve b.]

Again, I'm intrigued, and only guessing here, but you are leaving out a lot of details so its hard to tell.   Since you are getting checks in high humidity I'm guessing the handles already possessed stress fractures and the changes in humidy changes caused a little more movement.  Otherwise it just doesn't make sense that an otherwise structurally sound component suddenly fractures because of a small change in humidity. 
But lets say it is all true.  Is it really worth going to such great pains to keep the handles intact vs. just pre-splitting them and doing whatever to make a handle in the end??

[DC]

More and more it isn't. That split just bugs me and unless you use bondo it's quite a bit of work to fill.

[shofu]

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,60167.0.html
Check out Knoll flex handle locust bow - the built up flexible handle might be a good solution for OS staves
g

[Ed Brooks]

DC, a quick report back on my experiment on this. after I cut those two pieces of OS, I sealed them with glue, the next day I put them in front of the heater and have left them there. as of today, there is no cracking on them. I think I'll need to do this again with full length pieces(some time) out for now. Ed

[DC]

I did one too. I cut it and roughed it out with a squared off handle section. Next day the handle had split down the side.I cut the handle off . This one was my fault. I got it all done and put it on the work bench and went in to make supper. Forgot all about it . It was really wet.

[willie]

Have any of you OS types ever tried wrapping the handle section to keep it from checking?

Interesting problem and creative approach to finding a solution.
I wish it grew further north so that I could try some.

I wonder if breaking down the problem a bit more would give direction to finding a good remedy.

When purposely splitting OS, green or dry, is it tougher than average or does it split easily? Does it have interlocking grain? or the opposite?

When drying OS, does it seem to shrink more than most, or is it prone to warping and bowing?

[DC]

OS seems to split well but I haven't split that many. When I first started messing with it I split some but they all seemed to split straight so I just bandsaw them all now.

Maybe a little bowing but most dry nice and straight. Well, as straight as they were when I cut them. There's usually a kink or two. I only have Yew, Maple,Dogwood and Crabapple to compare with but I think it must shrink more than most. If it didn't shrink I don't think it would check.

[willie]

DC

Observing  that it splits "well" might be a description of whether it splits straight or not. I was hoping to find out if it split easily or was hard to split. I am guessing that in order to split well, it is an easy wood to split.

Put another way, my questions are directed to trying to see if drying OS creates more stress (shrinkage) than most, or whether it just doesn't hold together well with otherwise average stress/shrinkage.

Different woods shrink more or less than others, and in different directions (relative to the grain). These qualities are often discussed in woodworking and furniture making forums. Doubt that you would find OS listed, or whether you could do much different on account of the smaller diameters typically used. Some woods are quite a bit different from others, though, especially when comparing certain directions. Radial and tangential.

What happens if you saw the stave down the middle right thru the handle area, tie back together as sawn, except with some spacers to facilitate drying, then once dry, glue the saw cut back together, remove bark as desired, and shape handle area per design?

[steve b.]

I think you are on to it willie.  I don't think it splits.  Not like oak where you hit the end of a six foot log it splits all the way down its length running along the grain.  OS splits off to the side, if I remember?  It carves like celery when it is wet and you can have a fresh cut stave debarked and floor tillered in an hour or two.
Like I said, I think its just characteristic for it to behave the way it does when drying.  You can put alot of effort into drying it and the handle may or may not split anyway.
If anything I'm most intrigued by the idea of tightly wrapping or clamping the handle as well as sealing it for best results.

I've seen little reaction-wood-type movement from OS when it is split.  I've never seen it twist or warp.  It doesn't shrink noticeably but obviously it is to some degree.  I've only seen a reflex or deflex half move in one direction or another (more or less deflex/reflex) slightly. 
I don't think it heat treats well.  It will heat bend ok but I don't think it keeps the shape under strain.  Its almost hard to get it to burn. 

[DC]

DC
What happens if you saw the stave down the middle right thru the handle area, tie back together as sawn, except with some spacers to facilitate drying, then once dry, glue the saw cut back together, remove bark as desired, and shape handle area per design?

This would take a year and a half to answer, you want to wait I can guess though. I would think you could cut it right through the middle and stand the two pieces in a corner not tied together and after a year they would match up. I don't think it moves around much. What it does is this. This was ripped with a bandsaw. You can see how much it's shrunk, radially I guess. Double that gap and that is the size of the check you would have.