Question on Flemish String Jigs

[Kalvek]

Hi guys. I recently made an attempt at making a tillering string with some b-50 that I bought and a string jig that I made ( instructions were on this page: http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/features/flemishstring/flemishstring.html ) but it seems that when I made the string it came out far shorter than I had anticipated. One line says "If your bow is 64 inches long, put the movable peg in the hole marked 64". Given that I wanted to make a tillering string, I put the peg/nail at the 72 inch mark. In the end, though, the finished string came out to about 60-61 inches from end to end.

Did I do something wrong here by not measuring something where I should've? Perhaps I built the string jig incorrectly (I did try to follow the measurements exactly)?

Could someone with more experience in this area perhaps guess at what might've gone wrong? For reference, the string I made had a loop at one end and a timber hitch at the other.

Edit: I just measured the string again with the timber hitch undone, and it came out to 67 inches from the loop end to the end of the string in total, even though some of that string wasn't usable as they were the untwisted ends that were past the knot tied for the timber hitch.

[PatM]

 Did you countertwist the whole length?  Most guys on here probably use the two nails in a board jig.   lol.   Really that's all you need.

[DC]

Reverse twisting can use up a lot of length. If you did more reverse twisting than the "instructions" call for. I made a few practice strings and when I arrived at a method I could repeat I re-marked the lengths on my jig to match what I was actually producing.

[osage outlaw]

I made a new tillering string this weekend and I did not use my string jig to cut the strands.  I just used a tape measure to cut the strands 100" long.  I made a loop on one end and quickly twisted the rest of the string.  I tied the loose ends in a knot and made a timber hitch, aka bowyer's knot on it.  That string is long enough to tiller any bow I'll ever make.  I believe the string jig works best for double loop strings.  When you twist them up they will be quite a bit shorter than you expected.  You can make a simple jig to stretch them or hang them on a hook and hang some weights on it.   

[Kalvek]

I actually didn't counter twist the whole length, no. I tried to only counter twist from 10 inches onward at both ends. Two nails in a board jig? I take it that's just two nails in adjustable peg-holes at each end? I did see someone on youtube use a similar method, just with the ends of c-clamps.

DC -- Yeah, I did try to follow the instructions as much as I could until it got to the timber hitch portion, and then I had to watch a video from a guy named Mick Grewcock on youtube. His video was actualy where I saw that c-clamp method as well. I think what I'm going to do next is either try to make a very long string for tillering using c-clamps to measure so that there's plenty of room for error, or I'll try to make a few practice strings like you said you did.

Outlaw -- when you say you twisted the rest of the string, do you mean you counter-twisted the entire length of the string? Yeah, that was what I was considering as my next option, and that's what I'm finding with string jigs; string jigs are good for double loop strings. Thanks for the advice! I think another method for twisting the string I've seen has been to counter-twist the ends, and then twist the string to the desired length if it's long enough, but done in such as way as to preserve the loops, and then wax it. I'm not sure if this is standard, or if counter-twisting the entire length is the standard, but I think that was one way of doing it.

[PatM]

, and then I had to watch a video from a guy named Mick Grewcock on youtube

With a name like that I'm not going to dispute his instructions on correct length.

[Kalvek]

Haha! He's just a soft-spoken English gentleman who's taken to learning bowyery within the last year, and has a few helpful videos.

[osage outlaw]

I did not counter twist the rest of the tillering string.  I just twisted it real quick. 

[Knoll]

Length is impacted by how much counter twist used. In the beginning of my string making, I used wayyyyy  too much counter twist and, given number of times ya do a counter twist in making of a string, that can reallllly add up.
Experiment with your jig and counter twisting. I wrote notes all over my jig 'cause have terrrrrrrible memory.   

[upstatenybowyer]

Kalvek,

Perhaps I can solve this conundrum for you right now. I made the exact same jig from the exact same diagram and had the exact same problem you did. The strings seemed to come out exactly 10" too short so now I just add 10" to the length number I wrote on it and it works every time. Of course this does put a limit on the lengths you can make, but so far that hasn't been a problem.

[jeffhalfrack]

This is my problem too,,,,,,,I can't come any where close in length?? Jeff

[loon]

Maybe 10" on each end is too much (I did maybe 4" or 3" on mine, not counting the loops), or maybe you could put less twist on the bundles when reverse twisting? It's hard to know how much is optimal..

Did you countertwist the whole length?  Most guys on here probably use the two nails in a board jig.   lol.   Really that's all you need.

I very much agree. I made the jig with a ton of nails, and realized it's trivial to stagger the ends by just pulling on a few of the strands, don't need a special jig for that. I think a two-peg one with several holes for different lengths would be best for me..

[Kalvek]

Outlaw -- Ahh, gotcha. So just twist the rest and serve while strung, then?

Knoll -- I see. You know, I did do a lot of counter-twisting up by the loop, so it seems like it's twisted far more than it would've needed, so maybe that was part of my problem. I'll be sure to experiment with it a bit!

Upstatenybowyer -- Huh, so I guess it was faulty design, then? You know, after measuring from one loop to the end of the undone bowyer's knot, it did come closer to 68", so what I'm thinking is that the way the jig is set up is that it just gives you the length of the untwisted string being cut, not the length you're going to need for a specific bow length like the instructions claim. I am curious how exactly you fixed the issue. When you say that you "add 10" to the length number", do you mean that if the hole for one of the pegs says 72", then you raised it to 82"? I'm trying to wrap my head around how that would help -- I'm probably misunderstanding. I do want to understand the issue though, so if you could clarify, it would be much appreciated!

Jeffhalfrack -- Yeah, I qas quite surprised that the string turned out to be so different in length from what I was expecting, but it was a first and perhaps we just need practice with making the strings?

Loon -- Hmm, yeah, perhaps I twisted too much and shortened the length that way. I actually was only doing 1 - 3 twists per counter-twist. True, and it's something I'm going to have to practice to get good at. Ah, wish I had known about the two peg method beforehand. I'd only heard of flemish string jigs with a taper for making flemish twist strings.

[osage outlaw]

I don't serve a tillering string.

[loon]

If you already made the fancier jig, I guess it doesn't hurt... don't think it's much easier to measure with 2 nails/pegs