Author Topic: Backing materials  (Read 13906 times)

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Offline chrisdaggs

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Backing materials
« on: September 08, 2016, 09:41:48 pm »
In my earlier bows I made the mistake of not backing them. They have always seem to break now I have tried different types of back now I am tryin
Linen fabric . Now I have heard that it is a good backing. Has anyone tried if so how well did it work?
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Offline tattoo dave

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 09:49:17 pm »
Linen is great, but if there's tillering issues, or issues with the wood itself, linen won't save the bow. Post some pics of your progress while tillering, and I'm sure everyone could help out a lot to make sure the next one survives.

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Offline chrisdaggs

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 09:53:05 pm »
I have had luck with rawhide but it is hard to find in length without splicing and expensive
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 10:41:25 pm »
There are many backing materials from heavy craft paper to linen, silk(neck ties) and rawhide. All help prevent splinters but none will prevent a fatal flaw.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2016, 10:48:10 pm »
I would respectfully disagree with your above statement.  Your mistake was not, in not backing your bow.  Your mistake was in not making the bow correctly.  If you had, it would not have needed a backing.  I don't offer this to you to be unkind in any way.  I offer it to get you to thinking about why these earlier bows broke???  Board bows or stave bows?  Bad grain selection?  Poor design?  Poor tiller?  It could be one of these things or something else completely, but what ever it was, THAT needs to be identified and addressed, otherwise you run the risk of doing the same thing again and a backing might not keep it together either.  Post what you have run into on these earlier bows and lets do a post mortem.  You can still back the next one if you wish, but you wont have to.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2016, 10:52:08 pm »
Good point Slimbob.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Limbit

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 12:36:35 am »
Think it's what Slimbob said: don't look to the backing, look to the bow. Some types of wood pretty much ought to always be backed because such and such a wood is weak in tension but good in compression. Ipe is an example of this as are cherry and juniper. Not to say they can't be made into self bows, but a backing on them is much safer and improves their lifespan. Most other "bow woods" don't really need a backing IF you select the appropriate piece of wood. Like Slimbob said: no runoff, knots etc... Backings are great when the piece of wood you are using isn't the best. In that case, bamboo, hickory, maple and ash are common hardwood backings. Sinew, rawhide ,linen, cotton, flax (? if I remember right) and silk are common "soft" backings. Sinew is sort of a different topic entirely. Skins are for decoration in most cases and aren't going to do much to keep anything from failing in tension. Although some archers hate hearing this, two big rawhide dog-chews will work for a "rawhide backing" when spliced at the handle. This is not the high quality rawhide most archers want to use and it is highly processed, but in most situations, it is plenty strong. Rawhide goes a long way and isn't as difficult to apply as a wood or sinew backing. It also won't overpower the belly of the bow causing chrysals. Good choice I think.

Offline Pappy

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 05:37:10 am »
Like Slimbob/PatB gracefully said, backing may help in holding a splinter down but even the best backing won't hold a bow together if it has major issues. I thought the same thing years ago but found out I was wrong and had wasted a lot of time with the backing when they broke just the same. :) Figure out what you have been doing wrong and then if you want to add backing for insurance go for it. :)
 Pappy
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Offline DC

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 11:01:48 am »
Just for info. I bought a couple of rawhide dogbones to make some glue the other day. When I soaked the bone to soften it some of it just fell apart into mush. It wasn't one good piece and some mush it was one piece that was good at one end and mushy at the other. If I had to take a guess it looked like they started the glue making process and part way through pulled out some skin and rolled it into bones. It still made good glue but I would doubt it's strength for backing.

Offline Badger

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 03:04:58 pm »
  I wouldn't even fool with backings unless you are doing laminated wood bows. Just work with good materials and learn to tiller them out properly. I did the backing thing for a while and it wasn't worth the trouble. I don't know anyone that fools with backings beyond a few bows. Rawhide is often used on yew bows but more so to protect the surface of the back from nicks than to keep the bow together.

Offline chrisdaggs

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 03:51:01 pm »
I do appreciate all the advice from all.  And no offense  has been taken I am very new to all of this and accept all views. I know that the backing material does not keep the bow from breaking and keeps the splinters from rising off the back. I personally like a bow with a backing. Like I said I am new and trying to find a style that suits me. I want to make great bows that will hold up over time and work the way they are supposed to.I know the last two bows were not tillered properly after further investigation of the areas where they broke. I also had one that the growth rings delaminated it was sad very nice shooting bow (rest in pieces ). I would like to thank you for everything you all have said. this does help in a lot of ways and teaches me to look more closely at wood choice. I have had two successes though
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Offline PatM

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 04:17:43 pm »
I would back every bow with sinew if I could get my hands on enough consistently. I love the stuff and the process.

Offline loon

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 04:36:24 pm »
I would back every bow with sinew if I could get my hands on enough consistently. I love the stuff and the process.
Haha, good for you!

For a long sinewed bow one would... make a narrow molle with width taper limbs?

Sinew is so expensive. Wish we could get cheap cattle sinew and a good way to process it
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 04:39:48 pm by loon »

Offline Arrowbuster

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 09:10:20 pm »
I would like for ya'll to clarify something for me on this subject. I am new to making bows so I got a question with some of the posts on this thread. I had assumed that if you had violated a ring that you could back the bow and be fine. Is this not the case? I need to know for future reference.

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: Backing materials
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 10:28:08 pm »
A bow with a violated back ring might survive without a backing, or it may not.  Same if you back it with a soft backing.  It might work and it might not.  A soft backing as Pappy said may hold down a splinter, but it wont fix a bigger problem.  Hard backing is obviously different. The back underneath is already violated, but even then you need to have good workmanship for it to work well.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.