Tell tale signs while tillering

[ryder]

While tillering my bow (as time permits), I got to thinking about what makes bowyers change their plans for the bow as work progresses.

For example, if you are tillering and it starts to take an early set, is that an indication you are asking too much of that design and should aim for a lower draw weight? Or inversely, if you are at full draw length or close to it and it's taken no set at all, does that mean it's overbuilt and you could shorten the bow, or safely up the draw weight? Or are there indications it needs to be backed, or sinewed? Things like that?

Just interested, I've seen people write things like "let the bow tell you what it wants to be" a few times, but as a beginner lacking context that doesn't make a huge amount of sense

[crooketarrow]

  Starting out I look at the stave and to a point you do let the stave tell you what to do. But at the same time I have a plan, what I need or what. I can see the bow in the stave.

 If your bow takes a early set. Two things either you've went past your intent ed target weight while tillering. Never do this, while tillering never pull past your intent ed finished bow weight. pull past your this puts unwanted stress and will cause set and string follow.

  Second your staves not seasoned enough.

[George Tsoukalas]

If I find the stave not responding to belly wood removal and getting too  thin, I usually start to tiller by narrowing. Jawge

[bradsmith2010]

yes Ryder,, you have the right idea,, you have to be open to some improvisation,,because you really can't see whats inside a stave till you start to tiller,, and your game plan may need to change accordingly,,:) 

[willie]

Ryder

changing your plan as you go, or changing your tillering goal, has been for me, one of the most difficult aspects of tillering to learn.

Learning how to see the desired tiller shape early in the tiller process has been helpful to me, and using Badgers "no set" method has helped also.

I have quoted from Badgers "History behind the mass theory" in the archive section.

 

The no set tillering is pretty cool I think, you don't measure mass at all. you simply start tillering as you normaly would but use your scale to monitor set. You actually pick up on it before it is visble. When you put your bow on the tiller tree just carefully note what the draw weight is at a specific distance, say 16". now as you pull it to 17" you go back and check 16 to see if it changed, then go to 18 then 19 then 20 each time going back to 16 which has become your benchmark and looking for the slightest change. If you note a slight change examine your tiller closely and remove a bit of wood to reduce strain, Now make a new benchmark at your last place you pulled to and go on tillering each time going back to the last spot and checking the weight. Anytime you see the slightest drop in weight at your benchmark you take off more wood on the belly, taking wood off the sides if you need to drop weight. If you compelte the bow and get zero set which is rare you will be shocked at how it shoots. Not hard to gt less than 1" using this method.

[Badger]

  You think exactly like I do Rider. Those are the kind of questions you should be asking. This is exactly what the mass theory is based on , learning how to listen to the wood. If you have high mass and it is taking set it may be high moisture, if you have low mass and it is not taking any set it might be too dry, just as you suggested sometimes it means it is over or underbuilt and we need to change our target. Having a target mass to reference gives you something to compare the behavior of the wood to.

[ryder]

Thanks gents, that's definitely food for thought! With the no set tiller method, would you count losing a slight natural reflex as taking a set? Or would that only be for taking a set past straight?

[Badger]

  Anything you loose is set but the first inch I doesn't always mean too much.

[Danzn Bar]

I somewhat agree, but I always start out with a finished bow design in mind, it just might very a bit one way or the other,  that's why I think most bowyers say they have never built the perfect self bow. 
DBar