I need some advise and pics

[Pat B]

 This figure is a project I made from paper mache. He is my representation of an American Eastern Woodland hunter.


 For my next project I want to try a Mary Rose era figure at full draw with his war bow. I would like to make it as accurate as I can with the bow, arrows and other accessories plus get the stance, attitude and clothing of the shooter as close as possible to the real thing. Can someone give me info as to where I can find examples of a war bow shooter of this era, in full regalia and from different angles?

  Thanks,

[Aaron H]

Oh, I'm looking forward to seeing that one Pat, especially considering how well your eastern woodland hunter turned out.

[Ruddy Darter]

Hi Pat, that came out cool 
Here's the Archer off the Mary Rose reconstructed, the Jerkin is made of calf skin flesh side out.
I'll try and source you some more stuff that may be helpful...
Here's a video of Joe Gibbs shooting a 170@32" Mary Rose replica. He can do it so I reckon the nearest you'll get to how it looked (don't know anyone else who could make it look so easy )), the pushing forward into the bow first is important and then elevation from the waist to the desired angle.
https://youtu.be/0-2KLuAH4GY
Ruddy Darter.

[Pat B]

Thanks guys. Ruddy, that gives me a good idea of the clothing of that era.
Can either of you give me a website or whatever that would show shooting stance, etc? I did find a pic of Mark Stretton pulling a heavy bow but I'm not sure if his stance is the same or is each individual's stance different.

[Ruddy Darter]

I just added a video to my previous post Pat B, and  I'd say Mark Stretton would be a good comparison to a medieval heavy archery too.

 Ruddy Darter.

[WillS]

Don't use that model for clothing guides     It's a million miles off!  For Henry's 16th century elite archers you want absolute top of the range fashion.  Glennan Carnie and his wife are about as good as you'll get for that period in terms of spot on accurate clothing.

This photo of Glen is what you're after for clothing (this isnt even high fashion, and Henry's elite may well be far more "fancy" but its a good starting point.



If you Google Glennan Carnie you'll find lots of photos of him at full draw with bows around 150lb so combine the two and you should be on your way.  Can't go wrong with Joe and Mark either, and if you can find some pics of Simon Stanley, or anybody else who can properly shoot heavy bows you'll have a good range of styles to pick from.

[Lucasade]

I would have thought the Mary Rose museum would have used clothing off the ship as a basis for dressing the models? And massive trousers like in your picture would be no use at all for working men on a ship as they would be constantly getting in the way - maybe for the officers though as they do look very dapper. I've worked on traditional sailing ships and I'd sooner go without trousers than be around blocks, ropes and other moving rigging with that much loose fabric.

Don't forget the working men being 'elite' would not equate to them being anything more than working men who were very good at their job, so almost certainly not rich enough for haute couture.

[Pat B]

Maybe using "Mary Rose era" isn't right. "War Bow era" might be a better term. Say the average war bow shooter from Agincourt or other battles would be a better choice. I'm not all that familiar with the time lines so forgive my ignorance.
  Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'll research the info given and look forward to other info to come.   

[WillS]

Mary Rose era and Agincourt era clothing are very, very different.  Easier to find Agincourt era clothing photos online however.  If you look at some of the kit worn by the guys who did the recent 600 year anniversary you'll have a good idea.  Can't get much better than Nick Birmingham for that, if you can find some images.  He's got it spot on.

Lucasade - they're not working men, they're soldiers.  Very different thing!  Paid soldiers hired for the kings flagship aren't "working men".  Plus, despite being at battle when it sank, the MR was on route to the Isle Of Wight to drop off soldiers as well.  It wasn't sailors that were using the bows.  That's my understanding anyway.  May be wrong! 

[Lucasade]

Soldiers or not they would still have been on a working man's daily wage, albeit a good one. Enough for good quality clothes but not enough to keep up with fashion I would say. I may well be wrong but the only soldiers I've ever seen or seen pictures of swanning around in fancy clothes tend to be ceremonial guards or minions of an egotist; all the rest I've seen wear highly practical clothes that won't get in the way.

Prince Harry was the flagship when the Mary Rose sank, though Mary Rose had been a flagship previously in her career. And wouldn't soldiers be hired for the army rather than an individual ship?

There's some good photos of Nick Birmingham on the Warbow Wales site's report of the 2015 Courtfield Cup.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

You may want to clarify if you are looking for an everyday shoot sort of scene or if you want battle gear, because in battle the archers would not be wearing anything like fashion wear but likely quilted gambison and other minimal armor and weapons in addition to their bow.

[WillS]

This photo of Nick is what I would consider accurate for slightly earlier than Agincourt (the hose and the sword aren't right up to date with 1415 but you could do a Crecy or Poitiers scene and this would be perfect.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nick+birmingham&safe=off&client=ms-android-motorola&biw=360&bih=511&tbm=isch&prmd=nisv&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFk5OhndLJAhWHVxQKHXbUDMkQ_AUIBigC#imgdii=VFhUX1HopAn05M%3A%3B1OMIDeCWi4q28M%3A%3B1OMIDeCWi4q28M%3A&imgrc=1OMIDeCWi4q28M%3AA

[WillS]

[Ruddy Darter]

Here's a archers sallet, and side arms with mallet for hammering in stakes to fortify positions against cavalry, and head bashing, after a swift bash in the face by the buckler shield the bollock dagger was used for slipping up for the gonads or armpit, face or gap in the armour at close quarters.

[Ruddy Darter]

Here's a couple of models I found just to show the stakes hammered in, it was a main tactic used and thought it might make a nice addition to your model making. The stakes were possibly a little  bigger and taller though (?)
And another pic showing the buckler shield how it was worn.


    Ruddy Darter.