one of my thinnest preforms.

[iowabow]

In picture 1 I am showing the platform  before flakes are removed.
In picture 2 I am showing the stone cut in half as I thin from left to right.
I guess at this point I don't really see the need for thinner points. But now I think about my ishi stick work combined with this antlers stuff and wow this could be a whole new game.

[nclonghunter]

From the end of your fingers I see an isolated platform with a continuous platform to the end of the preform. That thing thinned out nicely. Getting them thin is more fun than finishing the point...lol

Thanks for the pics

[Outbackbob48]

John, as you know I am primarily a copper knapper, Today was foolin around with a antler booper and had a nice pc of kekouk that was a big thick preform from some earlier copper thinning, thought I would try and thin this out to a blade with the antler. After a few passes fiqured out i needed to hold pc at a more upward angle an hit it hard I got some great thinning flakes. My only compaint with the ABO antler is I seem to have to hit everything 2 or 3 times to do what I would get with one hit of copper, just doesn't seem to release as quickly so minor adjustment of swing and or speed and pow, off it comes. Just a lot more tiring of arm between the 2 styles, Hopefully thinking that this will improve with more practice with the antler. Later picked up a pc of Texas and just took 3 or 4 swings to get what I would get with one hit of copper. Thinking my plat forms need to be weaker with the antler, I am so used to really strong platforms fast hits and results with 1 copper hit, tuff material really made my arm tired with the antler or differnt muscle used with antler hold verus nice straight dowel. Having lots of fun either way I didn't start knapping until i was 58 yrs old, just hoping I can keep hand strength, and keep arther away       I know a few really good knappers that Arther finally had his way with, One of my early mentors at the classic hardly knapps at all because of what Arther did to his hands, truly one of my best teachers. Starting to ramble on . Later Bob

[iowabow]

Thanks for the post Bob. I have Knapped longer with antler than copper it has been years since I have touched copper to stone so my perspective is likely not good in drawing comparison at this point. I remember my frustration when switching to antler and totally can identify with where you are coming from.
I would personally find it difficult and frustrating  at this point to make a point from copper.  I can really can't compare the two techiques anymore they are so very different as you have pointed out.
I don't know if I work hard or smarter now with time as a comparison. I do think I have spent more time thinking about how to ABO vs copper because it has taken a long time to travel this path. I think maybe now it is easier to make points and my speed for making ABO points has increased but I have personally slowed down as to not over do it.
As you know I am knapping everyday so finding the easiest way to pop off flakes with the least amount of energy is always a bonus. I use mix of antler sizes and hammer stones to produce points with the least amount of stress possible. Each tool will release a flake with varying amounts of energy. I watched a hammer stone video the other day with a guy that effortlessly removed flakes with a hammer stone.
I switch tools often depending on the task and switch up my knapping day to how I gauge the health of my arms. But I did learn that pacing myself was important. With this project I am currently working on I am switching from one task to the next. Depending on my mood and body I will spend my time working hammer stones to biface out work for the pit or pressure flaking preforms or doing edge work and notching for a light day. My favorite time really is building the fires for the heat treating and just enjoying the moment and experience of that part of knapping when your doing nothing but adjusting the fire. On days I am not in the mood I Knap by collecting rock or creek stomping for strange colored chert. Sometimes I use my knapping time to hunt artifacts in the creek and use those to think about knapping.
I don't know if my process will lead to heath issues or not. If I don't feel good and no longer enjoy it I will move on to other things.
In the end I guess copper knapping and abo are different and to compare the two is kinda like Apple and oranges really because of the differences. One is not better than the other but just different.

[iowabow]

I decided I was getting long winded and started a second post here. Sitting in the stand deer hunting. But got winded by a deer and it's now light enough to type.
Anyway, Bob the flake detachment for me is about what removes the flake with a comfortable swing. I know what you mean about the speed and and all. I think I have found a balance in antler size, wt, size of flake and speed that just works for me. I guess if it doesn't feel right it probably is not right. I can say after two hits if that flake did not detach then things need to be worked out better. But what wrong is, is hard to discribe. Learning ABO after copper is a nighmare. The processes are so different and it just pissed me off to no end honestly. I guess that's why I write so much about trying to help folks out. I don't want them to go through heck like I did.

[iowabow]

Kinda addressing your thoughts with different post here.  Yes the dowel vs the antler hold did hurt my hand when I switched and the top of my forearm hurt like heck when I spalled large stone with the large moose antler so I switched to hammer stone and the problem disappeared.

[turbo]

@ 'Outback'; make sure you're not using modern abraders w/ abo knapping. There are people who do well w/ that approach but it's easy to make platforms too heavy. Watch videos by 'flintknapping tips' and Lucas Nicholson. They use hammerstones to make platforms w/ a technique called 'schrunching'.

[iowabow]

@ 'Outback'; make sure you're not using modern abraders w/ abo knapping. There are people who do well w/ that approach but it's easy to make platforms too heavy. Watch videos by 'flintknapping tips' and Lucas Nicholson. They use hammerstones to make platforms w/ a technique called 'schrunching'.

Good point I also abraid up and across not down too much and when I say abraid I mean brush