Author Topic: Sparking hammerstone  (Read 4282 times)

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Offline nclonghunter

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Sparking hammerstone
« on: November 11, 2015, 09:34:04 pm »
Doing only ABO knapping now I have been using a few different hammerstones. The one I have settled on because it works the rock best has been sparking at the flints edge. No sparks are dropping like a flint and steel but little sparks where the rocks meet. I have never seen this before from a granite rock. This one came from the banks of the Ohio River in WV. It may be the best hammerstone I have used.

It must have iron or something in it. Anyone else experienced this?
There are no bad knappers, only bad flakes

Offline Dakota Kid

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Re: Sparking hammerstone
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 10:48:48 pm »
When a crystal is shattered it creates a spark. Quartz will spark when a crystal is shattered. If you want proof bite a wintergreen lifesaver in the dark. That wasn't just a marketing gimmick, it really sparks.

If there is seismic activity near a quartz containing mountain range, the light from the sparks can be seen reflecting across the night sky. 
I have nothing but scorn for all weird ideas other than my own.
~Terrance McKenna

Offline nclonghunter

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Re: Sparking hammerstone
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2015, 07:21:28 am »
I am assuming that flint is a crystal of some type?

Maybe they always sparked some and I didnt notice with copper or antler. I would consider the granite a hard hammerstone and since it works great I thought a jusdgement of granite could be if it produces a spark or not.
There are no bad knappers, only bad flakes

Offline Dakota Kid

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Re: Sparking hammerstone
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2015, 11:28:41 am »
I realize now that perhaps my comment was a bit misleading. The term "spark" needs a bit of clarification as it can refer to two totally different phenomena. There's the electrical type of spark and the falling ember type of spark. When a crystal is broken it produces the electrical type of spark which will flash and cause the crystal to "glow" briefly. When high iron is struck it frees small particles and exposes them to oxygen and those particles auto-ignite causing the ember type of sparks. Iron is a pyrophoric,  which is a substance that will catch fire when it is exposed to oxygen. White phosphorous and lithium are in this category as well. The thing that makes iron different is that a chunk of iron won't auto ignite(unlike the other examples). Without getting too involved the short answer of why this happens is that a piece of iron is coated with a layer of iron oxide(rust) which protects the raw iron underneath from the oxygen. When iron is struck with flint or pressed against a spinning grindstone small pieces of pure iron are torn free and exposed to the O2. They immediately oxidize(turn to rust) Fe + O2= FeO2 + heat. The pieces are so small that all the heat generated in that reaction can't be absorbed by the unexposed iron in their center or the surrounding air. Thus the glowing embers. It also explains why some embers burn longer than others. The larger sparks have more surface exposed to the air as well as a little more pure iron in their centers which hold the heat a bit longer. If the particle of iron gets too big it will be able to absorb the heat generated by it's own surface oxidation and won't get hot enough to glow/burn.

If your are getting falling embers, there is iron present. If you are getting a flashing right at the point of impact you are breaking crystals.
I hope my explanation was clear enough to make sense. In a super simple nutshell, iron sparks are heat based while crystal fracture sparks are more electrical/ light based. 

While flint is in fact a crystal(microcrystaline quartz, many tiny crystals) it's the iron in the steel that makes the heat. The reason you need the flint is that quartz is harder than the steel. Using a flint and steel produces both kind of sparks, but the tiny electrical sparks from crystal fracture are hard to notice with all the ember type sparks that also result. Steel is used instead of pure iron because iron is too malleable to produce free falling particle when struck.   

Geology, chemistry, and physics all before lunch. I'm ready for recess. :laugh:
I have nothing but scorn for all weird ideas other than my own.
~Terrance McKenna

Offline Outbackbob48

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Re: Sparking hammerstone
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2015, 11:46:23 am »
Nc, I have some hard granite hammerstones and have noticed in dim light that it would spark when I used the side of it for my abrader. Kid , sure glad that was the short version ;D :o  Bob

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Sparking hammerstone
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2015, 12:21:25 pm »
All the ones I have found locally do the same thing. It is what I have always called "Granite". They even throw a spark on Obsidian every now and again. Granite is usually about 20% quartz. There is your crystal.
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline nclonghunter

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Re: Sparking hammerstone
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2015, 02:01:30 pm »
D Kid, thanks for the info. I have started a thousand fires with flint and steel. I just know that the friction and steel shavings is what makes the sparks not the flint. But, you must have something sharp or hard enough to cut those shaving.

I may start charging for the ABO light show after dark at knapping events. One thing that occurred to me is a long time ago someone used pyrite to "knap flint" then saw that it was making the sparks and eventually made fire. At least it is possible a flint knapper discovered the fire use for pyrite.

Bob, I mostly noticed it when used as a striker but did see some also when abrading which is a lot less impact.

JoJo, never heard granite had quartz in it...interesting

Thanks for the replys and info!
There are no bad knappers, only bad flakes