New bow from a newbie

[adb]

I agree with Frank. No handle wrap is going to fix this bow. It would be like putting a Band-Aid on an axe wound.

[iangriffin]

Hi all
I wish to thank everyone who commented on my post. I have decided that despite the negative
words, I do believe are true, to a large degree. That I shall carry on with my bow design. As I look at my Kassai and Grozer bows, they both have limbs set at a reflex angle. True, they both have glass/ fibre elements. All of the positives I will build into my next bow. I have absolutely no axe to grind with anyone. I will post again, when I have something  to show. Winston Churchill had a hobby, building walls on his estate. His work was dreadful. When a friend pointed this out he said, ''Any fool can see whats wrong with it. But can You see whats right with it?'' The point I'm making is that only a friend would deliver the bad news.
Regards Ian.
 

Regards Ian

[PatM]

You can set limbs at a reflex angle properly as well. The design and execution of the design are two separate things.
 

[PEARL DRUMS]

If you want to compete with the glass recurve guys, you want to do it in style! Not with a bow that has a half kilometer of cord wrapped around it holding it together at the grip, that's ugly. You have the right idea, just execute it a bit better next time around.

[DaveMac]

Hi Ian its nice to see someone else from the North of England. I hope that you do keep posting. I'm just starting out (on bow number 3) I made a design error my first bow (should probably say stick) because I miss read a line in the book I was following, started the fade closer to the handle than the flare. I didn't post here but on a similar forum, and got lots of replies like "boom"  . It was hard to read when I had been working on it for months, but importantly they weren't wrong. I'm still making stupid mistakes, but haven't made the same one twice. I think you did really well to get it as far as you did, I'd have to get on the shreddies to even draw 100#. I'd move on to the next one and if you want to be innovative in the design post here first and get some constructive feedback. 

[Parnell]

Is there no school or churchyard Yew branches that needs to be trimmed in your area?
Welcome to PA, don't be discouraged but do be careful.

Cheers.

[medicinewheel]

Ian, ple---laezzzze, nobody commented negatively about your bow, nobody commented the design: it's just the handle that is as wrong as can be, and is dangerous for you and those standing around when you pull it. The limbs will flip back at you or others. And the limbs will do so with zero warning and with tremendous energy.  Your overall idea of the design will work no problem. Try another with the laminates running nock to nock. And ask for help here. Tons of good advice.
I made like 100 successful bows and I certainly am one of the lesser experienced guys on PA. This here is knowledge bounty.
Take this as my last word on this thread.
And again: welcome to PA!

[iangriffin]

Hi PatM - On 2 previous posts I have admitted that my joints were poor. So please stop now. To me it sounds like a song sheet that most people are singing on the hour every hour. Its boring. Having admitted my joints were poor twice in different posts that should be enough. I got the design idea late one night, scribbled it down. I started build it the following day, As the bow came together. I made the bad mistake of getting giddy and throwing it together. I came on this forum get good advise I got that from many people. I am Happy on this forum. I not only respect everyone, I appreciate and am taking the advise given. All the advise will be built into my next bow. The joints will be up to a much better standard and will be increased from 2ins to 3/5ins. I would say that the danger is not as big or bad as some people think. The analogy about a pry bar is totally wrong. From full draw, bow limbs generate a turning force, i.e. Torque and not linear. The pivot point is spread out amongst the total glued area of both limbs and not a point at all. Having said that, I am increasing  the total glued area with more length and better joints.I doubt that my next bow will be the answer to a maidens prayer, but, it will be significantly better in all ways.  Thanks to the people on this forum.
Pearl drums - Both Kassai and Grozer bind the joints on their bows. I think it looks great on their bows. But my Bow is different and I agree with you completely.
DaveMac - Please PM me and let me know where you are, maybe we can meet up sometime. As regards pulling a 100lbs bow. Its not as difficult as you think. You did not say how long you've been shooting and with what power of bows. If you use your whole body its not so bad. I've only been shooting for approx. 6 years. I am a short fat man who turned 62 yesterday.
Parnell - We used all our Yew 500 years ago. It used to be a law in England  that all imports had to include a big quantity of Yew staves. Mores the pity as I live fairly close to a graveyard. 
I do have a graveyard storey. I used to make thumbrings from solid bone. When unwanted visitors asked where I got the bone. I would point to and say the graveyard and look at them sideways (like the Terminator). Of course I got them from my local pet shop, (bones for dogs).  Not everyone believed me, but, they did'nt stay long after that.
 

[PatM]

 Knock yourself out.

[Zradix]

That design in the handle is going to get someone hurt.
An extra inch of joinery won't make it safe.

To each their own and all. I'm all for good new ideas...but this one just isn't good.

You seem dead set to continue down this road.
I'm not trying to be funny here..but I'd suggest a full face helmet with good eye protection.

Whether you want to consider the force on the limbs as rotational or whatever..the FACT is ALL that force is anchored to the poorly designed handle.
It's not the bad glue lines that make me feel this way..it's the design itself.

I really don't like being harsh or critical to people..but when safety is the concern I'll speak up.

I hope you don't hurt yourself or others.

I also hope you'll keep having fun building these things and I'm looking forward to seeing other "out of the box" ideas.

Take care

John

[Blaflair2]

Hi Ian, welcome to PA! It sounds like slot of harsh critism but everyone is only trying to help. We all made out first bow. Some a lot better than others. MOST people aren't trying to put ya down. Certainly not trying to deter u from building bows. Consider it harsh guidance. These fellas know just about everything ya could ask. In a collective u will never beat the knowledge located in this forum. No one wants to see ya get hurt! The handle is sketchy, it's a lot of trust in a less than perfect glue line to hold a lot of leverage. Think of trying to move a log, can't do it. Wedge a stick under it and u gain the leverage. That leverage has a very high chance of prying your handle design apart. Laminations should run from tip to tip for best results. Maybe u can make a design like u planned using bolt on limbs, like a 3 piece takedown. U cannot compare wood and glass bows. Apples to oranges. The stuff glass can do I don't believe wood will ever. So again were not trying to dissuade u of ur design, just letting u know the flaws we see and some help on the next go. If u taper ur laminations almost like a glass bow before glue up u can get it to some more radical bends in glue up. So u can make the laminations run throughout the bow. And get more the shape u desire

[WillS]

.
Parnell - We used all our Yew 500 years ago.

Nope.  Still plenty of fantastic English yew available in the UK.  Graveyards are still full of it, as are gardens, parks, stately homes, river banks, cliffs... It's everywhere.  You can drive down some A roads down here on the South coast and lose count of them.  Not all of it is suitable, but with so much it's not hard to get good stuff. 

Ian, as a quick word of advice - these guys are telling you that the design is flawed, not in need of tweaking.  When this much experience looks at a bow design and says it won't work, it's worth taking heed.  Adding an inch or two to those joints won't change the way it functions.  I'd recommend changing design completely, but that's up to you.  This place is packed with supportive experts who will guide you through making bows, but you have to be able to accept when they say a design is fundamentally flawed.

If you remember recently when you posted your bows on Archery Interchange, there were lots of members criticising your tillering and understanding of terminology (hinges for instance) on bows that you were selling on eBay.  Perhaps (and I mean this in the best possible way) it's worth addressing that stuff first and getting the hang of making simple bows well, before trying to reinvent the wheel somewhat.

[PatM]

"To me it sounds like a song sheet that most people are singing on the hour every hour. Its boring."

 You heard what the man said.

 Not often a man of 62 comes across as a "you can't tell me differently" teenager but there you have it.

[Josh B]

Fellas.....you're kicking a dead horse here.  Can't you see that he has bulled up?  If he didn't get the memo in the first 3 pages, he's not going to.  He's just going to have to pee on this electric fence for himself.  To be honest, if I were him and just learning the ropes, I would probably react the same way.  Think back to your first success in making a bow that actually shot that first arrow.  Man...what a high that was!  I still remember the pride and self satisfaction of a job well done.  I look back at it now and shake my head.  What piece of junk that thing was, but at the time if someone would started picking it apart and trying to explain how to improve the next one, I would of been disheartened to say the least.  If there would have been an internet back then, I could have easily been the one staring at the screen with my fingers in my ears, saying, "nah nah nah I'm not listening to you!"  I'm not saying that is a proper response just an understandable one.  I know some of you are thinking that your not going to waste your time offering advice to him in the future because of this.  That isn't right either.  Lets just let it be.  He hasn't been on here long enough to get a feel for the good intentions offered.  If he sticks with it (and avoids serious injury)  he'll look back at this and understand.  Best of luck to you Ian.  I sincerely mean that.  Josh

[Onebowonder]

Fellas.....you're kicking a dead horse here.  Can't you see that he has bulled up?  If he didn't get the memo in the first 3 pages, he's not going to.  He's just going to have to pee on this electric fence for himself.  To be honest, if I were him and just learning the ropes, I would probably react the same way.  Think back to your first success in making a bow that actually shot that first arrow.  Man...what a high that was!  I still remember the pride and self satisfaction of a job well done.  I look back at it now and shake my head.  What piece of junk that thing was, but at the time if someone would started picking it apart and trying to explain how to improve the next one, I would of been disheartened to say the least.  If there would have been an internet back then, I could have easily been the one staring at the screen with my fingers in my ears, saying, "nah nah nah I'm not listening to you!"  I'm not saying that is a proper response just an understandable one.  I know some of you are thinking that your not going to waste your time offering advice to him in the future because of this.  That isn't right either.  Lets just let it be.  He hasn't been on here long enough to get a feel for the good intentions offered.  If he sticks with it (and avoids serious injury)  he'll look back at this and understand.  Best of luck to you Ian.  I sincerely mean that.  Josh

Josh is right here.  Some years ago I posted a Google Sketch-Up drawing of a very similar design.  I got the same responses of "Please Don't - You'll hurt yourself if you try".  Fortunately, I never made the bow.  I still have the drawings and I still kinda wanna try it.   It stung a bit to be told not to try something I had envisioned and imagineered so carefully only to be waved off from the attempt.  I've learned a good deal since then, but I might not have if you guys hadn't re-directed my thinking on it.

OneBow