Good tiller doesn't always look good

[JoJoDapyro]

So to try to get back on topic, what dictates a "good" tiller? Is elliptical better than whip tillered? How can we better show what obsticles were part of building a certain bow?

[Danzn Bar]

Guys please correct me if I'm wrong....in trying to answer your first question .... the "final tiller" of a bow whether it's elliptical, oval, whipped or what is determined by the front profile.....but this should be another post.  Sorry Jim
DBar

[PEARL DRUMS]

I'd guess that I disagree with about 50% of the tillering/timing advice given on the sites I visit.

I think there is alot to consider before disagreeing that highly. For example, I am on this site so bleepin' much that not a lot sneaks by me. There are times when a guy starts a help thread. Fixes said bow and starts another that may not include unbraced pics that time around, happens all the time. Another example, there are many, many friends on this site,and others, that share a ton of info outside the forums. Maybe they have inside info others don't. Not saying there isn't plenty of guessing going on as you suggest, but 50% seems awfully high. 

[burchett.donald]

 I agree DBar, Most bowyers can tell correct tiller depending on front profile and side profile. And I will continue to compliment them for this...The bowyer will have to be his own final judge after shooting...
                                                                                                                                                    Don

[PEARL DRUMS]

Everybody's eye is different. Some are quite detailed and many things that tell them the story may not be so clear to everybody looking at a pic. I guess in other words, not everybody needs the entire equation to complete the problem. Experience has to count for something.

[JonW]

Chris you just put in words exactly what I was thinking. Not sure what to THINK about that

[joachimM]

The initial question (even looking tiller may not be reflect even strain) is a very important one to me.

Suppose you have a stave reduced to bow proportions, with one limb 2" more reflexed than the other. How should one deal with this? You could steam-bend the other limb to match it, or tiller and bend both limbs so they even out on the tillering tree at each incremental draw length. But in the latter case, the more reflexed limb will have travelled a longer distance, and be strained more. 
Pretty often, the more reflexed limb takes a bit of set by the time I'm finished tillering, exactly where the extra reflex was present, and in the end both limbs match. 
How do others do this?   

Joachim

[Dances with squirrels]

Pearly, what Joachim just mentioned is where that '50%' came from... and I thought I was being conservative 

I'm not talking about only how we get each limb to bend evenly relative to its own unbraced shape, but also about how/if they are balanced relative to each other and the archer's holds at full draw... all part of 'tillering' a bow, imo. That's where I find I part with many folks.

[blackhawk]

If ya can't take the heat then stay outta the kitchen!!! 

[bubby]

So does bad tiller always look bad

[crooketarrow]

  HERE'S THE TICKET TO TILLERING
  GOOOOOOO  SLOWWWWWWW

  If you have a kink or knot,curve you tiller through it. You do this that stress your talking about is evened out when you tiller through the problems.


  After I get what I think is spot on tiller.You've got to put 75,100 arrows throught it.

I'm sure you've all seen places in your bow after you've shot it a month.  YOU'LY AFTER A DOZZEN ARROWS OR SO I CAN SEE PLACES WHERE COULD'NT SEE ON THE TREE.

  But I can see halfeyes point also.

[joachimM]

"ou have a kink or knot,curve you tiller through it. You do this that stress your talking about is evened out when you tiller through the problems."

Kink or knot: no problem, i get how thats supposed to be done. Still, I dont see how you tiller through an excess of reflex in one limb compared to the other. I interpret this that you tiller relative to how much the limb tip travels from its unbraced position, which gives a pretty uneven tillering profile. But I probably misunderstood you.
Joachim

[blackhawk]

@joachim....in your example ya tiller it like you should any other bow...your striving for a balanced draw...if its tilting one way or the other on the tree or in your hand then one limb is stronger than the other and its not evenly strained in both limbs. On the tree the string will also not pull straight down on an unbalanced bow.

[joachimM]

thanks Chris/blackhawk for your input. So basically, you ignore the fact that you have the extra reflex in one limb and just tiller till it looks and feels balanced.
Which is what I've been doing, with the addition (not on purpose) that the extra reflex mostly disappears during tillering. 

Joachim

[adb]

Throughout the tillering process, even from the beginning before it starts, I strive to keep the limbs even. If I have a stave with one reflexed limb and the other deflexed, I will definitely heat correct one (or both) of the limbs before I begin. I'm working on an ash ELB stave at the moment, with one reflexed limb (about 1.5") and the other limb is deflexed with a bump mid-limb. Before I even floor tiller, I'm going to heat correct BOTH limbs, making them more even.
Also, the speed at which you tiller has no effect. As long as your tiller remains even and appropriate, it doesn't matter squat how fast or slow you go. And I've never noticed the tiller changes on any of my bows, after a week, a month, or a year. If a bow is stressed and tillered evenly, it will likely stay that way.