Challenge!

[JoJoDapyro]

I'll start by saying that I don't care what you use to build your bows. I just love the art and the community.


OK, there has been a lot of talk about what is primitive and what is not. Lets start with "Glue". The majority of bows built and displayed here are made with one of 3 types of glue. Hide glue, Epoxy, and PVAc (Titebond).
 
Hide glue has been made and used for a good long time. It IS primitive.

 Epoxy. Epoxy was first commercially manufactured in 1927, not exactly primitive, but Elmers White glue wasn't commercially available until 1947.

 PVAc. Polyvinyl Aceatae was discovered in 1912. It is also used to seal cheese. Super glue is used, but I don't think it is a main component of building a bow.

Lets move on to tools. This could take awhile so I will stick to what I see a lot of bowyers on PA use. Band saw, Spoke shave, Draw Knife, Card Scraper, Hatchet, Axe, splitting wedges (metal), Hand Plane, Chain saw.

Band saws have been around for a long time. The first patent was applied for in 1809. The first welded band saw blade was patented in 1846 (by a woman). The first American patent was 1836.

Spoke Shave. Spoke shaves have been around since about 1660. New ones are garbage in my novice opinion.

Draw Knife. The draw knife has been around for a long time as well. A set of shipwrights tools were found from 100 AD with one.

I really can't find a whole lot of history on Card Scrapers (Cabinet Scrapers). A guy wrote about them in 1826, but they have been used for a very long time.

Hatchets and axes have been used for a long time as well.

 Metal Splitting wedges have been used since the Egyptians used bronze wedges to split stone.

 Hand Planes have also been used for a good long time. Like for 2000 years.

Chain Saw. The chain saw was invented in 1783, but was a medical instrument. Hand held chain saws were invented in 1925. The first American made gas powered chain saws were made in 1947.

Materials are what they are. We use wood, Bone, Horn, Antler, Leather, Sinew and hoof.

Here is the Challenge (finally, I know). I want to see a bow (hopefully a lot) made with all hand tools. I have seen quite a few, I even made my first with all hand tools. I want to see one built from materials and tools that pre date 1900 (modern versions are fine, and from materials from your area (if sinew is available you can use a different kind etc.). I will be building a sinew backed Utah Juniper (juniperus osteosperma). I hand cut the stave with a bow saw. If anyone wants to chime in on a deadline please feel free. I need a bit of pushing.

I hope to see some awesome Primitive bows.

[Eric Garza]

Why is making a bow using steel hand tools a challenge? And why did you start this conversation by talking about what is and is not 'primitive' if your end goal was to challenge people to make a bow using steel hand tools, most of which are anything but primitive, by any definition.

It seems to me that many, perhaps even most, of the bows featured on the PA forum probably fit your description. I don't see what's special about them. Now challenging people to make a bow out of primitive tools, perhaps defining 'primitive' to mean tools that people used in the Paleolithic Era... That would be a meaningful challenge. I don't know if I've ever seen a bow posted on these boards that was legitimately made with Paleolithic tools.

[Badger]

      I very seldom use a bandsaw anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the bows posted here are made with hand tools.

[JoJoDapyro]

Sure , most are made with hand tools. But how many are made with hide glue only? Only out of materials that you can collect in your current area? The topic is due to the argument of "that isn't primitive" . Most of the bows that are made are made with glues that aren't primitive, tools that aren't primitive, and materials that in a primitive world would not be available. Osage was not available to people living in my area 100 years ago, let alone a hundred years before that. Fiberglass is no less primitive than epoxy, yet epoxy is used, and no one bats a lash. I am not a better craftsman that anyone here. I will never claim to be. My point is that quite a few people get upset when someone brings up using something that isn't primitive, and really, in the big picture the use of something as small as bamboo backing wouldn't have been possible . I am still going to build my bow as a challenge to myself, as a learning craftsman. If you don't want to be a part of it, don't. I will respect the wishes of moderators and not post fiberglass backed bows, or ask questions about them. But to get upset that someone is using a non primitive material is a bit silly. Of the bows that I have built, none of the wood I have used grows here. The snake skins are from snakes that aren't from here. The arrow shafts I use don't grow here. I am putting out a challenge to build what could have been built in your area pre 1900. At the least you may learn something. 

[Badger]

  The times I have done this I failed at making a string for my bow. We have suitable string material but I wasn't up to the task.

[Jim Davis]

Most bows I have made used no glue. I'm sure lots of us could say the same.

I'll admit, the 1920s to 1935 or so is my favorite period to imitate. I just don't want any fiberglass or carbon fiber.

Jim Davis

[JoJoDapyro]

Badger. I thought about that after the rules. Doh!
I guess I'll have to figure something out on that!

[mullet]

Count me out. I build bows because I like too. If I want to do it with a Coke Bottle I'll do it. It just takes a while longer, but the end results are still the same.

Soooo, Jo, since you started this, How many have you built, primitive? Let's see a Build-along .

[TimBo]

Check this one out:  http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=47415.0 

[bradsmith2010]

I finished a nice osage bow last year,, made it with hatchet ,, draw knife,, and knife and scraper,, no glue it was a self bow,, but the string was not primitive,,  I started with a stave a friend sent me,, he may have used a chain saw  he did not say and I did not ask,, so probably does not qualify,, anyway I was working on it out front, and this no it all guy came by,, and said since I did not know which was the ground and sky side it would not even be considered traditional,, well back to the drawing board

[bubby]

I'm with eddie, my wrists are so bad with arthritis when i do use a hatchet to work one down i'm down for a few

[jeffp51]

there are clearly different levels of primitive,  all of them with their own challenges. I have heard it said that all art is about setting limitations for yourself. I like seeing stuff made from stone and bone tools, but honestly I am amazed by most of the craftsmanship on this site.  I am thinking about making some arrows from all scavenged/ found materials (ie, they won't have cost me any money at all.) Phragmites shafts, knapped bottleheads and some feathers a neighbor gave me.  Good luck with your project.  Keep us posted.

[sleek]

I built most my bows with only a knife. JW has seen one of my bows like that. I do better work now. But still start to finish, I love just using a knife. KA-bar to be precise. 

[DavidV]

If the form hasn't changed by using modern tools it's good IMO. If I grap my reciprocating saw because it's two feet closer than my hand saw to cut the length of a stave, is one going to be more cut than the other? I think most of my bows would fit in around the 1930s, I use planes, draw knife, scraper. I play around with paper backings using PVA glue though and Dacron strings. That doesn't mean a good resawing badsaw and drum sander aren't on my wishlist.

[scp]

We are trying to make bows primitive bowyers had made, could have made, or would have made, with materials they had, could have had, or even would have used. As for tools, we can probably rely on the possible results achievable using the tools they had or could have had.