Author Topic: Smoked ash HLD (No. 52)  (Read 34956 times)

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Offline Hrothgar

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Re: Smoked oak HLD
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2014, 11:35:54 pm »
Very interesting post. That ash grain is beautiful!
" To be, or not to be"...decisions, decisions, decisions.

Offline wazabodark

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Re: Smoked oak HLD
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2014, 12:00:24 am »
That's an amazing bow! Every time I log in I look to see if you've posted any new ones. I'm in awe of your craftsmanship. Beautiful!

Offline simson

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Re: Smoked oak HLD
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2014, 12:54:40 am »
Simon,

For hundreds of years, chemical stains have been used in the gun buildinto industry.
I have been building American longrifles for about 20 years, and nothing brings out the curl or figure in curly Maple like Aqua Fortis.  The original formula was nitric acid with iron dissolved in it to saturation. Unfortunately, this must be neutralized to prevent further corrosion of any iron or brass furniture on the gun.
Today, I use Ferric Nitrate, which is the compound you get from the Aqua Fortis, without the acid.

Like the Aqua Fortis, you flood the wood with the Ferric Nitrate, let it dry, then blush it with heat to turn a beautiful amber brown, with the curl a nice dark brown.
As you stated, it works with the tannins in the wood to get the desired colors and the stain is "in" the wood, not on it.
It's a beautiful thing!

Thanks for that info, Dane!
I've heard about Aqua fortis, I will try this also. I know there are hundreds of recipes out there from the old craftsman.
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline simson

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Re: Smoked oak HLD
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2014, 01:13:43 am »
Yes Simon I'm a little familiar with the 'fuming' method for wood coloration. Gus Stickley and other craftsmen furniture makers used this method around the turn of the last century and before on their fine furniture. It was also employed for millwork to trim homes at that time. From what I have read tents were built to put the wood, mostly white oak, in with pans of ammonia placed inside to fume the wood. Kind of a hazardous situation to your health so you had to be quite careful. My home is a 1910 arts & crafts bungalow so the wife and I are always on the look out for period furnishing and read quite a bit on all subjects relating to the craftsmen style of architecture.
I've thought about trying that method on bows before but never have so I'm glad you posted it. The bow looks great, hollow wood design with the ammonia finish, doesn't get much better than that my friend.

Thanks Greg!
The right terminus is obviously "fuming", I didn't know the right word. And yes, it is hazardous - don't breathe the damps.
I know a bit the Arts & Crafts movement and like the architecture and furniture, too. There are so many good things from the elder to discover again.

Looks real nice Simon. I have also heard of putting a reagent on woods that have a high sugar content.  I believe the ratio is 1 part hydrochloric  acid 1 part nitric acid 10 parts water. I think you put it on the wood after its sanded and heat it with a heat gun until the acids start to carmalize the sugars. A guy I know used it on osage and he said the effects were stunning, says it was as if you could look down into the wood.

Cody, I've also heard about that transparency effect. But I've never seen an example. That would be looking very cool.

Thanks for bringing up Stickley and the Arts and Crafts Movement, Badly Bent.  Some of the finest furniture designs came from that bunch of clever poeple.  Think of the Morris chair and the Mission Oak furniture.  There was difficulty with building furniture from this "ammonia  fumed oak", not all of it took the same amount of color.  The craftsmen would have to pick thru racks of wood to find similar grain and color, then saw and resaw, assemble, and oil finish. 

The benefit of that kind of persnickety wood picking was that they looked every stick over from every angle. They saw the grain, the character, and saved those boards for the parts of the furniture that showed the grain to the best effect.  I remember my great-grandfather showing me the tiger striped grain across the back and along the arms of his Morris chair, and how the wood on the sides and base were just straight plain grain wood.  I was so young, I actually thought they sawed up real tigers to make wood for furniture.

Haha, good story. Now let's saw up tigers and make some bows out them!  ;)

Man that's one slick lookin bow Simon.  I love that pic of the whole belly.  Great look with the dye job.  Can you use just house hold ammonia? 

Yes Matt. I've bought mine regular in the drug store. I've got solutions of 10% and 20%. Just be careful, that stuff is acidly!


Thanks everyone for comments and / or info!
I have editet my post. Made some mistakes with oak - ash. This bow is definetely ASH!!!
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline GlisGlis

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2014, 04:02:32 am »
Astonishing work simson.
Every time i read a post from you I expect great things and you allways surprise me with even higher results.

As far as ammonia. Do you think it's possible to use a rag directly on the wood surface instead of the vapour method and obtain similar effect?
Wood will absorb more humidity probably.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2014, 05:43:38 am »
Yeah, another great bow... Dude you gotta slow down, give some of us a chance to catch up ;)
Love the shape of the arrow plate (ok... and the nocks... ::) )
You have a great eye for elegant detail and the skill to pull it off.
Now I'd better get back to the garage and work on the next bow....
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline IdahoMatt

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2014, 10:58:45 am »
Sorry to ask so many questions Simon, when you say solutions of 10%and 20% what are you mixing the ammonia with?  Thanks again I'm just excited to try this. 

Offline smoke

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2014, 11:23:52 am »
Your work absolutely blows me away!  Bow after bow is a work of art!

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2014, 11:49:30 am »
Matt, Just like alcohol, ammonia comes in different strengths. You can get Isopropyl in different percentages. I am going to try this on my next oak board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_fuming
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 12:09:12 pm by JoJoDapyro »
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline simson

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2014, 02:41:57 pm »
Sorry to ask so many questions Simon, when you say solutions of 10%and 20% what are you mixing the ammonia with?  Thanks again I'm just excited to try this. 

Exactly what JoJo said, and thanks for the link to wikipedia

Guys, if anyone tries this please share your experience. This is very interesting and please watch the difference in the wood structure!
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2014, 04:27:12 pm »
This process has got me thinking. I work in the public sector, I am a licensed pesticide applicator in Utah as well as many other certifications. At the city I work we use Urea (46-0-0) as a fertilizer in the fall on the park strips and playing fields. If urea is applied and not watered enough in the first 12 hours you have an issue with Ammonia escaping from the fertilizer (Urea is made from urine). So my thought was, if you were to use a bit of granular urea, in a closed steaming setup (minus heat), would you get the desired results? The article I linked states that this type of wood staining was discovered from wood stored in stables, and the urine from horses released enough ammonia to do the trick.

Also keep in mind that a lot of expensive face creams women use are made with urea!
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline GB

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Re: Smoked ash HLD
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2014, 09:50:31 pm »
Beautiful bow as always, Simon.  Really like the effect that ammonia has on the grain.
Yeah, I remember when we had a President who didn't wear a tinfoil hat.

Offline simson

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Re: Smoked ash HLD (F/D pic is added)
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2014, 03:02:32 pm »
Have added fulldraw pic and measured drawweight at 72#/28".

Thank you for your comments, guys. Always a pleasure when you like my work.
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline Bowman

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Re: Smoked ash HLD (F/D pic is added)
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2014, 02:10:23 pm »
Fantastic bow mr. Simson. Very cool.
:-)
"for veik var kongens bue......."

Offline Lucasade

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Re: Smoked ash HLD (F/D pic is added)
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2014, 04:23:59 pm »
When you say that elasticity increases, I guess that would help the back but not make much difference to the belly in terms of compression/tension resistance? I just ask as the consensus is that ash is great in tension and only reasonable in compression, so would this improve the compression resistance?