Questions from a newbie

[Lucasade]

Hello,

I'm doing some research before making what will hopefully be a warbow, and there's some questions I haven't found the answer to yet:

1. I've cut a side branch from a yew tree in a client's garden which I look after, which has yielded two pieces, mostly so that I could get it home. One is by pure chance 80" long and just under 4" diameter, the other is about 60" long and a bit thinner (further along the branch). First, am I wasting my time using a side branch? I've not taken the bark off but it looks like with one exception there are only pin knots.

2. If I'm not wasting my time, is there a logical step down in weight and draw length from a full size bow to a shorter one if I want them to have similar characteristics? I'm intending to use the short one as a practice for the full size one in all respects from making to shooting, and it's extremely likely they will be the only two bows I will ever make or own.

3. What is arrow spine? And what actual practical effect will it have if the only thing the finished bow (assuming it makes it that far) will be used for is attempted shooting in a field for my own amusement with no prior experience? Or will just buying a bunch of bobtailed poplar shafts and making arrows from them suit my needs?

4. Assuming I can get the funds together, what collection of say 12 bodkins would give me a good cross section of styles?

The object of the exercise for me is to make in a fairly traditional way and then hold in my hand something similar to what was used in the Hundred Years War. If it works it will be a bonus, and if I can learn to shoot it that would be a double bonus!

Apologies if these questions are all answered elsewhere. I've read back through about 18 months of posts on here and the Bowyer's Diary.

Thank you in advance...

[Del the cat]

1. Side branch, trunk, whatever... wood is wood.
2. 80"at 4" diameter is enough for a Warbow... 60 " isn't, it may be a perfectly good bow but it's not a "Warbow"
3. Arrow spine is it's flexibility. With a Warbow or longbow the arrow has to flex a bit to get round the bow (there isn't a cut away arrow pass), Rule of thumb is you get spine about 10# less than the draw weight of the bow.
4. Dunno, doesn't matter yet, you don't have the bow yet. Cross that bridge when and if you get to it, you can shoot 3/8 shafts with all sorts of different  cheap points to start with.

Have you made bows before?
Del

[WillS]

Hard to help out with the branch questions without seeing it first, really.  Side branches are ok, but bear in mind you will have tension and compression wood (the tension side will be the side facing upwards while the branch is still on the tree and makes the better bow, so if you can, try and get the bow out of that uppermost side)

60" is tiny, for a longbow.  Perfect for practicing techniques but don't expect to get a longbow with a normal draw length out of it.  Make sure you seal the ends and leave the yew along for a good year or so before trying to make anything with it.

Arrow spine is essentially a measurement of how much an arrow shaft bends.  You can have two identical shafts but one may be denser than the other due to growing conditions and will bend less, ergo a higher spine.  This is important for target archery, as it affects aim.  If you want to shoot "medieval" style (i.e. at bits of armour, or more often up into the air volley-style) then theoretically buying a batch of bobtailed shafts will be fine.  However - half inch bobtailed arrow shafts are stiff as heck and need a bow of around 100# and over ideally to fly properly.  Otherwise they'll leave the bow like you're trying to throw a small truck.  Depending what poundage your bow ends up at, you either want to be looking at half inch bobtailed shafts (bows over 100#) or 3/8" parallel shafts for lighter bows.  Even 3/8" shafts don't like bows under 80# really.

As for bodkins you've got a few classics - the Type 10, a nice short 4-sided bodkin that probably saw the most use during the 100 Years War



The plate-cutter, huge and heavy and designed for going through armour plate and very similar to the head found at Crecy.



The Type 7, a needle bodkin for piercing maille



The Type 16 - some say this is the most common medieval head, but others (I'm in this camp) believe it was a normal swallowtail head that got sharpened beyond recognition over use (much like some of the Oakeshott swords) and flattened into this shape by years of earth piled on top of it.



The Tudor Bodkin, a short war head found at Portchester Castle dating to the 16th Century and probably the most common type used during normal warfare at the end of the 100 Years War.



Get yourself a selection of those and you'll have a really good spread of historical heads.

[Lucasade]

Thank you.

I'll put a photo of the branch up when I can if that would be helpful. In my fantasy outcome the warbow will come out around 75-90#. I don't mind working at technique but being a self employed gardener I don't want to kill myself!
I'd noticed the top of the branch had much tighter grain so was intending to use that. I realise the shorter piece will not be anywhere near a warbow but figured it would be good to learn on and maybe give to my son in about ten years time. I just wondered if there is a formula for reducing draw weight and length as the bow length reduces?
The wood is currently in my garden shed, I was going to leave it two years and it's currently had about two months... I've not made bows before but do have woodwork experience and a desire to practice traditional crafts and learn some practical history.

[WillS]

75-90# is a pretty good place to start I think.  You won't be able to shoot war arrows properly though - you'll be looking at getting some 70# spined shafts (probably 11/32") to see what the bow is capable of.

[mikekeswick]

Get it out of your shed.....store your stave somewhere cool and dark. Sheds are the worst places to store bow wood....way too hot in summer and too cold cold/humid in winter.

[Lucasade]

Here's the 80" stave:




Tell me the worst - how many cups of tea will it take to get a decent bow out of it?

Also, these are the options I have for storing it:


or:


Which do you recommend? And what do I seal the ends with (I have no spare cash but do have various paint products kicking about)?

[JW_Halverson]

Paint it is, then!

[Crogacht]

Store it as indoors as you can

I just put my staves in the garage, some are in the roof and some are on the ground (raised up with scrap bits to let air flow/stop floor moisture). It's either that or on the back lawn, sometimes you have to do the best with what you have.

[Lucasade]

Okay, I realise I am probably coming across as totally ignorant...

I have done wooden boat & ship building and coppice work, but the only wood I have seasoned to date is firewood, where being totally exposed outside in sun and rain speeds up the process, which is not wanted here. We don't have a garage or a loft and my wife will chop the stave up and burn it if I bring it within 10 yards of the house.

I have emulsion, fence paint, gloss or roofing tar.

[Crogacht]

That last pic of yours is what I would call a garage, or a shed, close enough  . Just put them in there and close the door or throw a tarp over the end so the weather can't get at them.

You want them to dry as fast as possible without causing damage. So that usually means slowly. It depends. Sometimes you can rough a stave down closer to bow dimensions and dry it in a hot box or something. It varies. Just do the best you can though. It's either that or build no bows.

Paint is OK for sealing, anything that stops moisture from passing through it is fine.

[Del the cat]

Paint the ends with any old paint...
Seasoning needs to be somewhere dry and airy, so just under cover outdoors is fine as long as it is off the ground and the air can circulate.
That first shed picture is ideal. It has a big over hang, store it under the overhang. Either screw/nail a couple of brackets to the shed wall to support the stave, or prop it up on bricks.
The worst thing you can do is to lie it on the ground and throw a tarpaulin over it... it will get wet slimy and rotten.
It doesn't need two years, but it will benefit from having the 'bad' half sawn or chopped away. If half is cut away, it will help reduce the internal stresses as the wood dries.
Spend plenty of time looking at it deciding where the bow will lie in the wood. If it doesn't look straight from any direction, then at least lay it out with tips and centre in a line.
Seeing where the bow lies is one of those things that you learn from experience.
Always spend more time looking and marking than sawing or chopping. You won't ruin a stave with chalk or pencil!
Del

[Lucasade]

That's great - thank you. I'll get onto that tomorrow 

[Crogacht]

Always spend more time looking and marking than sawing or chopping. You won't ruin a stave with chalk or pencil!
Del

It's true Del! 

Last two times I've managed to get out to the garage it's been all looking and marking and measuring. It really does pay to take all the time you can during that stage because it's way harder to put wood back on once its chopped off   

[Lucasade]

The last few times I've looked I've not seen a good place to cut - it may well be totally seasoned before I find it!