Author Topic: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.  (Read 3410 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline criveraville

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,210
  • Psalm 127:4
Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« on: April 30, 2014, 12:37:21 am »
Tonight the school district I work for had a school board candidate forum. I prepared  the following questions:

Do you think it is imperative that highly qualified teachers live in D or have their children attend D schools as a prerequisite to being employed by D ISD?
 
How do you feel about teacher’s summer school pay being reduced by five dollars per hour without any explanation rather than being awarded a much needed raise?
 
How do you feel about teachers work day being extended to 7:30AM and to 4PM making it virtually impossible for teachers with school aged students to drop their own children off at school even though the instruction day schedule is 8-3:30?
 
How do you justify most all employees being eligible for raises or stipends in D ISD except for those that do not live in D or whose children do not attend D ISD? 
 
Do you agree with the superintendent's use of the directive to "not speak to anyone about what was said in the room?"


What's my point? Support your teachers and parents be diligent.

Cipriano
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 09:56:08 am by criveraville »
I was HECHO EN MEXICO, but assembled in Texas and I'm Texican as the day is long...  Psalm 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

Offline stickbender

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,828
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 02:05:41 am »

     Bingo! ;)

    Wayne

Offline TRACY

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,523
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 06:27:03 am »
Nothing different here in Indiana Cip. Recruitment in the education field is at a low. We are teaching longer days right now to make up snow days, but the corporation can't get substitute teachers because they won't pay them for the longer day or let them leave an hour early. I love the classroom and the students, but have no tolerance for the administration and their lean management tactics. Next year our school day will be 25 minutes longer without any additional pay >:(

I'll second your last statement Cip!

Tracy
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956

Offline Slackbunny

  • Member
  • Posts: 866
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 09:16:26 am »
The education systems of the developed world are at a crossroads. Never before have we had the sheer volume of students to educate, and never before has the workplace demanded such highly educated individuals. Pretty well everyone needs a high-school diploma to do anything now.

My fiance is a hairstylist and to do that she needed not only her high-school diploma but a college education as well. It wasn't like that fifteen-twenty years ago. Its the same with all the trades now too. It used to be if you wanted to be a carpenter you got hired on as an apprentice and as long as you could do basic geometric math, you were away to the races. Now you've got to finish high-school and college.

Things have changed dramatically over the past thirty years, but we're still running the education system on pretty much the same model we were in the sixties and seventies.

Something needs to change in order for our education systems to meet the needs of society, and like most change, its unlikely to be a smooth transition.

Offline bowtarist

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
  • Primitive Archer Subscription Number PM103651
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 10:41:33 am »
I feel ya Cip. I work for a for-profit charter school and it's much the same. My dean just told me a few weeks ago when I asked him a question, "They (the company) want more for less."  Here it's not about teaching, it's about data accumulation and following their rules. Hardly ever do we talk about "TEACHING". It ain't a gooder, but in 4 weeks or so I won't be thinking about it.  ;) dp
(:::.)    Osage music played daily. :)

Offline Dharma

  • Member
  • Posts: 453
  • Kayenta, AZ
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2014, 11:04:30 am »
Generally, when the directive is given to "not speak about what was said" at the meeting, they're hosing people. Education has become highly politicized thanks to the parasitic class of upper-level administration (i.e. politicians.) These people will run ads for office with all the little film vignettes of kids looking up at chalkboards even if the aforementioned clowns gutted education.

Many other countries tend to keep their eye on the mission: Educating children well so they can be assured of a populace able to compete technologically in a rapidly changing world.

Indeed, our society now pretty much requires a college degree to do anything. This effectively cuts a lot of people out of advancing in life, unless they want to shoulder massive student loan debt. This gets paid to the government, of course, and one can make of that as one wishes. Though a carnival midway swindle comes to mind, as with most things that descend from the hands of our overlords. Basically, unless you already have money, to get a college education and have a reasonably decent job, you're going to need to pay a kickback to the government called student loan interest. Almost like the banana republics and junta-of-the-month-clubs of the 1950s-1980s era where everything moved with a bribe to government officials.   

Teachers are called to assume student loan debt to become teachers to discover in many cases, they earn less money than the crews on the garbage trucks picking up the trash at the school. It's always assumed that if education is poor, it must be the fault of the teachers. No, it cannot be the bloated bureaucracy that runs the whole show and makes the decisions on curriculum. It can't be the parents who create discipline problems by mollycoddling their children who need to be punished for bad behaviour, not given "awards" to boost their so-called "self-esteem". The teachers get the blame and none of the credit. The credit will be taken by the upper-level apparatchiks.
An arrow knows only the life its maker breathes into it...

Offline criveraville

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,210
  • Psalm 127:4
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 10:39:32 pm »
It's a sad state of affairs for students and teachers. My wife and I are bother teachers on the same campus and this happened to us on a school not 50 yards away.. Be diligent.


 


Interrogation transcript 1


Monday, September 24, 12; 1:30-2:02, 2012

At 1:30 Mrs. A caught me in the hall and asked to speak with me in the office.

I followed her, walked in, she closed the door behind us

Dr. S was sitting with a legal pad and a pen in his hand.

Dr. S, "tell me about this situation at the intermediate."

Me- what do you want to know?

Dr. S- everything from the beginning

Me- Diego first day of school was upset about how mean Mrs. C was

I emailed Mrs. B on the first day of school (aug 27) and asked for a conference

I met with her Thursday aug 30. I expressed my concern with Mrs. C's manner toward Diego.

Dr. S- did you request that Diego be moved out of that class?

Me- yes. I mentioned it to Mrs. B. On Tuesday Diego got in the car and said, "a miracle happened today. I didn't have music class."

Me- we ended our conference and I didn't hear back until sept 11, (12) days later regarding music class. She stated in the email that she had yet to visit with Diego.

Dr. S- do you feel the situation with Mrs. C has been resolved?

Me--no. It has not. She ( Mrs. B)  didn't email me until 12 days later to state she had not met with Diego yet.

Dr. S- what happened next?

Me-I emailed Mrs. B requesting that Diego be placed in a different math class the next morning.

Dr. S- you claim that the students in his class are in a low sub group. What are you basing that on? That's the term you used in your emails right? A low sub group.

Me-- the fact that I know the students.  Most or all of them were in recess tutorials and after school tutorials.

Dr. S- so in your professional opinion. That's what your basing this on. Your professional opinion. Is that the students in that class are low sub group?

Me- yes.

Dr. S- who else did you speak to about this situation... Flipped papers-- lets see you texted Mrs. A. Right?

Me- yes I did. After the meeting with Mrs. B, I sent her an email requesting Diego be moved to another math class, he came back to campus on Thursday and I had not received a response back, nor was he moved, Serena and I decided to move him back to Stephenville. I texted Mrs. A asking to come in about an hour later so i may have time to enroll him in Stephenville.

Dr. S-- what did you tell them when you enrolled him?

Me-- what do you mean?

Dr. S- what did you tell them when you enrolled Diego in Stephenville?

Me- I enrolled him. Filled out the paperwork and enrolled him. That's it.

Dr. S- Why didn't you withdraw him?

Me- I didn't know I had to withdraw him. I've never enrolled or withdrawn my children. I've always been working and Serena has done that.

Dr. S- why didn't you withdraw him? Don't you think you owed the school that courtesy. Your team mates?

Me- I didn't think I had to.

Dr. S- so you met with Mrs. B emailed her that afternoon. What was the date when you met?

Me- I think it was last Wednesday. Let me look on my phone at my email.

Dr. S- flipped his papers, are you sure about your dates?

Me- I can't find it in my email. The date. It was Tuesday. Last tuesday. Serena and I met with Mrs. B, I emailed her, Diego went to school on Wednesday and was in the same class, I gave it twenty four hours and decided to move Diego.

Dr. S- Do you know what ability grouping is?

Me- yes.

Dr. S- what is it?

Me- when you put students on same level in one class.

Dr. S- yes when students on the same academic level are all in the same class.

Me- yes I know that.

Dr. S- do you ability group on this campus?

Me- I don't know. Do we?

Mrs. A - Dr. S is that question me or Cipriano?

Dr. S - "didn't acknowledge Mrs. A's question. He didn't even look up from his writing and said,"Ability grouping is illegal. Did you know that?"

Me- No I did not know that.

Dr. S- yes it's illegal. We don't ability group in D!

Me- if its illegal then why was Chelsea ability grouped last year at the intermediate in the "middle level?"

Dr. S- Mrs. B emailed you Thursday morning at about 8:30AM letting you know what she was doing about the situation. You didn't think that was prompt enough?

Me- No I didn't. He was already enrolled in Stephenville by that time.

Dr. S- who else did you talk about this situation?

Me- I tried to get Mrs. A's attention by whispering to her. I tried to whisper to her if I needed to tell her that Mrs. E had shown us (Serena and I) the roll sheet. Mrs. A gave me an empathetic look

Dr. S-I ask you again who else did you talk about this situation?

Me- I looked at Mrs. A again. She was looking down. I didn't answer.

Dr. S- I'm going to ask you again. Who did you speak to about this situation?

Me- I DO not want to answer that. 

Dr. S- I'm going to ask you again. Who did you speak to about this situation?

Me- I DO not want to answer that. What happens if I DO not answer that?

Dr. S- you would be disobeying my directive.

Me- what are the consequences for not answering that question? For not following  your directive?

Dr. S- I have not decided yet.

Dr. S- Again. Who did you speak to about this situation?

Me-Mrs. E showed us the roll OK! I saw the roll! When that happened I went livid inside. Thanked her for her time, shook her hand, stood up and went immediately to see Mrs. B.

Me- Serena and I then met with Mrs. B.

Dr. S- did you inform Mrs. B what Mrs. E had shown you?

Me- no I did not.

Dr. S- why not?

Me- because I did not want to get her in trouble.

Dr. S- I don't understand.

Me- I did not want to get her in trouble.

Dr. S- I do not understand.

Me- i didn't want Mrs. E to get in trouble.

Dr. S- don't you think you had a professional responsibility to report what Mrs. E had shared with you?

Me- NO! No I don't! It's not MY job to tell on her.

Dr. S-  In one of your emails you state, "several teachers told you that class was a low sub group. " That's the term you used. Low sub group.

Me- yes.

Dr. S- who were those teachers?

Me- I do not want to answer that question.

Dr. S- well you stated several teachers told you that. I need you to tell me who those teachers were.

Me- I don't want to answer that.

Dr. S- that's what you said. That several teachers told you that class was a low performing class. What are those teachers names?

Me- Mrs. F . OK. Diego's 3rd grade teacher. After I found out about the student grouping by looking at the roll I spoke with Mrs. K. She said, "what the hell is Diego doing in that class?! She teaches the bottom of the barrel. That's what Mrs. E has said to me several times. That she's teaching the bottom of the barrel. Ok. That's who told me. Mrs. F. And I was not willing to allow Diego to stay in that class one more day.

Dr. S- who else. Who are the other teachers.

Me- Mrs. E. She said it. She said its a low class. Ok. Mrs. E did.

Dr. S then flipped back 10 plus pages full of writing, looking at his notes, looking at my printed emails.

Dr. S - who else have you spoken to about this?

Me- two trustees
(trustees)

Dr. S- anyone else?

Me- no.

Dr. S then said, "I have no problem with you contacting and speaking with board members. That's your parental right. You have that right."

Dr. S- did you use students names when in talking about this situation?

Me- no.

Dr. S- are you sure about that?

Me- I don't think I did.

Dr. S- yes you did.

Me- ok.

Dr. S- "I have no problem with you contacting and speaking with board members. That's your parental right. You have that right, but you may not use students names. It violated two federal laws on student performance and privacy.

Me- I was acting in the capacity of a concerned parent for the academic well being of my son.

Dr. S closed his legal pad to the first page.

Dr. S- this is an ongoing investigation.  You may not speak to anyone about this. About what was said in this room. To anyone! That's a directive.

Me- I said ok.

Dr. S stood up.

Me- I stood up.

Dr. S shook my hand.

Me- I shook his hand

Dr. S- thank you.

I walked out the back door of Mrs. A's office and went to my classroom.

Cipriano Rivera
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 10:09:41 am by criveraville »
I was HECHO EN MEXICO, but assembled in Texas and I'm Texican as the day is long...  Psalm 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

Offline NimRand

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • USAF Retired (Displaced Michigander)
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 01:53:00 am »
The Gestapo lives on!

Offline lesken2011

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,063
  • Kenny
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 09:13:23 am »
What a nightmare, Cip. I am so glad my kids are out of school. Now I have to worry about my 2 grand baby girls!!
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Kenny from Mississippi, USA

Offline criveraville

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,210
  • Psalm 127:4
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2014, 10:04:31 am »
Yep. It was a nightmare.
I was HECHO EN MEXICO, but assembled in Texas and I'm Texican as the day is long...  Psalm 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

Offline criveraville

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,210
  • Psalm 127:4
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2014, 10:05:08 am »
My response to interrogation:

Dr. S,

Monday morning I really enjoyed your Monday email. Thank you for all the encouragement, quotes, praise, and uplifting messages you write for us.

Since enrolling Diego in Stephenville without withdrawing him; I have had
no communication with Mrs. B or his teachers except for a sweet email
I received from Mrs. E in which I replied and stated that moving
Diego had nothing to do with his teachers especially Mrs. E which
is a statement I stand firmly by.

Moving Diego was never something we wanted to do.

On Monday afternoon after having read all the encouraging quotes, praise, and uplifting messages you wrote for us Mrs. A caught me in the
hall and asked to speak with me in the office. When I walked into the
office you were sitting there with a legal pad, and several printed
emails (my correspondence) acting in the capacity of a concerned parent and a pen in your hand.  *** please see conclusion of your Monday morning
message***

In "all investigations" in the past we have heard that you gave this
directive,"This is an investigation. You may not speak to anyone about
this. About what was said in this room. To anyone! That's a directive."

As you, Mrs. A and I know; I too was given that directive Monday
afternoon.

Is that directive an ethical directive? Is that directive a moral directive? Is that directive a legal directive?

Dr. S you do not have the authority to infringe upon my rights of
freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Below is the #1 duty you
gave us on Monday.

1. No fear ­ get out of your comfort zone.

I am out of my comfort zone. I am NOT afraid of you and I will not be
intimidated by you. The meeting I was called into was intimidating and
hostile and I continuously feared losing my job. You were not there as an advocate for my concerns as a parent, but to interrogate me and instill fear in me if I did not answer your questions and "obey" your directives.

Below is another quote you provided for us on Monday morning:

The brave may not live forever
But the cautious do not live at all.

Did you really mean that? I was not very brave in that meeting because I
did not follow your #1 directive for the day which was "No fear." I feel
that the tone of the questing, the mood and the intimidation made it
difficult for me to be brave.

Let's reverse this. What would you say to your daughter if she came home and told you the same had happened to her? Well could she tell you or would that be disobeying your directives and what would those consequences be?

It's a problematic conundrum isn't it?

Or as a teacher what would happen to ANY teacher if they called a child
they have authority over and did as you did to me? What would happen to me if I did that? Would that be ethical, moral or legal?

If that seems so grossly unjust and intimidating on a young child
(student) please consider the plethora of feelings and emotions in a "very talented, professional and intelligent" educator. Those are the
words you have used to describe teachers among many more. But to put it plainly teachers leave that office or room feeling freighted, scared, intimidated and in fear that their job (paying the bills) are in dire jeopardy.

Have you considered how my immediate supervisor, Mrs. A felt to
witness you interrogate me in that manner and subject me to answering
questions I did NOT want to answer?

Below is another excellent quote you provided us with on Monday morning:

We can not solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create
them.

Do you really think "your method" of interrogation and intimidation
solves more problems than it creates? I do not think so. I left that
office feeling violated, interrogated, forced to answer question I did
not want to answer, intimidated and filled with fear of my ability to
provide for my family.

Below is another excellent quote you provided us with on Monday morning:

2. Focus ­ I challenge you to focus only on those things that matter
most.

Unfortunately in that meeting I did not focus on the things that matter
most because I was in fear.

Below is another excellent quote you provided us with on Monday morning:

True leaders don't create followers...
They create more leaders...

I believe this and thanks to you, I am going to be more of a leader
and I will not be fearful and I will not be intimidated and I will not
answer questions I do not want to answer and I will not meet with you
again unless my association attorney is present and I WILL request that
all future meetings with you of an "investigation" manner be audio
recorded and I WILL request that I be given a twenty four hour notice
prior to being summoned to being interrogated in a hostile, intimidating
and fearful manner in order to have my association attorney present.

Below is another excellent quote you provided us with on Monday morning:

Stand up for what is right even if you are standing alone.

I think you dotted the "I" and crossed the "t" with this one. I am
standing up for what is right and I know I am NOT alone. I like you and I will shake your hand, look you in the eye, smile at you and give you a
high five, but I will not be intimidated by you.

Below is another excellent quote you provided us with on Monday morning:

In Conclusion:  Remember, the most important thing in life is family.  As you journey boldly into the new year with no fear...

Family and no fear.. That states it all. My children are my number one
priority and you are right to remind us all of this. I am unapologetic
when it comes to doing what is best for my children and there will be "no
fear."

Below is another excellent quote you provided us with on Monday morning:

³It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to your enemies, but a
great deal more to stand up to your friends.²

Do you seriously think I enjoyed taking Diego away from school? From his peers? You did not even ask me how he was doing? What his feelings were. How we felt? I like Mrs. B. She is not my enemy, but I put family first as you stated in your "Monday morning directives."


Below is another excellent quote you provided us with on Monday morning:

³When a defining moment comes along, you can do one of two things.
Define the moment, or let the moment define you.²

I will not allow "this" moment to define  Mrs. E or myself. I
still contend that it is grossly evident that she has an assignment that
is taxing beyond what one educator should be required or expected to do.

In conclusion, I am disappointed and saddened by all that has transpired.
I truly fear for Mrs. E and the students in that classroom. Not
because of the teacher, but because of the makeup. When Serena and I met with Mrs. B I asked, "are your students ability grouped?" She said,
"No. We did ability group in the past, but not this year."

Please look at the data. The students were ability grouped last year. I know because my daughter was in the middle level.

Dr. S if I had any doubts about sending Diego to Stephenville you
absolved me of that with each interrogatory question you asked me on Monday afternoon with the tone and mood I found disturbingly foreign.  My professional and personal evaluation of this "thing at the intermediate" (your phrase) is that the interrogation you subjected me to on Monday afternoon during my day of instruction and my planning period was a
retaliatory action by YOU for enrolling my son Elijah Cipriano Diego Rivera in Stephenville ISD without WITHDRAWING. Furthermore, I fully believe that I am being subjected to adverse actions by you for contacting board members in regard to "this thing at the intermediate" acting in the capacity of a concerned
parent for the academic well being of my son Elijah Cipriano Diego
Rivera.

I have copied this to the board members and asked that they request a copy of the interrogation transcript. You wrote a great deal and asked a lot of questions. I also ask that they request a copy of the
interrogation I am certain Mrs. E was subjected to as well.  Since you included Mrs. A in my personal matter in "my capacity as a parent" I feel obligated to copy this email to her as well. I wish she had not been pulled into my personal matter.

In closing I find myself asking, "What would Rachel Scott do?" Dr.
S thank you for the training because I know that I know that she
would not tolerate "bullying" of any kind by anyone. I also know that she
would not hesitate to stand up to a perceived threat and I too now gain
hope in her example. In the spirit of Rachel's Challenge I can extend a
caring word and thank you for the inspiring words and quotes you have
blessed me with in order to communicate how I am feeling inside as a parent and as a teacher.  As a parent I feel confident that I am loved. My role as a teacher; well you saw my presentation about the bilingual summer school program and I have been successful as a kindergarten teacher. My role as a  teacher in your district was
challenged on Monday and I left Mrs. A's office feeling violated,
but I  am resilient. I am hopeful and faithful to follow your words of
wisdom and to live by the directives you so carefully chose for us in
your Monday morning message.

Sincerely with "No fear and family first"
Cipriano Rivera
I was HECHO EN MEXICO, but assembled in Texas and I'm Texican as the day is long...  Psalm 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

Offline Wolf Watcher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,308
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 10:32:28 am »
Mr Cip:  You have my deepest simpothy and understanding as I know what you are going through!  I spent 15 years as a teacher, administrator, and coach only to have the whole thing blow up over working under a bully of a department head.  I quit with many misgivings as it seemed I was giving up on the education I had worked so hard for.  As it turned out, it was the best thing that could have happened to me and my family!  It was a lot of hard work, but in the end I even managed to reconstruct my education by running a very large scale network of training centers in Oregon, Washington, and Northwestern California.  The retirement I now enjoy is a result of what, at the time, I thought to be devastating.  I admire your efforts to take care of your son!  You have my respect both as a father and educator!  Joe
Get Close---Shoot Straight

Offline bubby

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,054
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 03:51:52 pm »
that was a lesson well learned cip, whenever you go into a "meeting" and it looks hinky, ask if you need a rep present, if they say no start it up and then if you start thinking i'm getting screwed with, stop it and demand your rep, sounds like the friggin' Spanish Inquisition
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

Offline Adam

  • Member
  • Posts: 913
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 04:03:26 pm »
I'm so sorry you have to go through this, but it's good that there's someone who won't put up with all that nonsense and not just back down immediately.

Offline criveraville

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,210
  • Psalm 127:4
Re: Maybe this is why things happened as they did.
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2014, 11:58:06 pm »
Joe, I'm sorry to hear that. Life changes are devastating initially, but you are right. Sometimes things work out for the better. I'm happy to hear that was the case for you.

Very true bubby. I didn't know I was "under investigation" until the end of a 45 minute session.

Adam, me too. It wasn't any fun.

However, I didn't follow that directive. I filed grievances at the school Diego attended and at the admin office for:

Ability grouping
Violating my Freedom of Speech
Violating my Freedom of Religion

Among other things.

They brought in a law firm to conduct "an investigation" which means they were there to absolve all and any wrong doing.

When the attorney interviewed me he asked if Dr. S had expanded on his directive not to speak to anyone or anybody. I said he has a doctorate. He knows the definition of anybody or nobody. He didn't have to define the word for me. I understood it as all encompassing.

The attorney then asked me to explain how my freedom of religion had been violated. I said sure. I'm a Christian. My wife is a Christian. His all encompassing directive hindered my ability to fully and freely communicate with my wife. When we Christians marry two become one. His directive prohibited me from fully enjoying and participating in my religion which is Christianity.  ;)

Cipriano
I was HECHO EN MEXICO, but assembled in Texas and I'm Texican as the day is long...  Psalm 127:4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.