Rosewood

[adb]

Hi, All

I have acquired a lovely piece of 1/4 sawn Panamanian Rosewood (dalbergia tilarana). Does anyone have any experience using it as belly wood? I'm looking to try a backed flatbow.

For those wondering, I have done my due diligence with the supplier, to make sure it is not one of the banned or prohibited rosewood species specified by CITES. It is a beautiful piece of wood, with very nice grain contrast and a nice deep reddish brown color. It seems pretty dense, I'm guessing it's about .70 - .80 SF, as compared to a similarly dimensioned piece of ipe (which is .80 - 1.0) SF.

[vinemaplebows]

If I remember right, talk to Marc.

[bushboy]

I asked the same question not long ago and broken arrow reported it to be compression weak. I be interested to hear some feed back also.

[adb]

If I remember right, talk to Marc.

Yah... that would go over good right now!  Like a turd in the punch bowl.

[bubby]

If I remember right, talk to Marc.

Yah... that would go over good right now!  Like a turd in the punch bowl.



yeah that's what I was thinking

[adb]

Marc and I presently have a no contact agreement in our current contract. 

[bubby]

HA!!!!

[PatM]

 Most of the Dalbergia species are rather good in compression.  Tulipwood in particular is exceptional.
 Keep in mind the Rosewood bows Marc posted were I believe Santos Rosewood(at least some of them) Santos Rosewood is not actually  a Dalbergia.
 Better to compare species rather than names.

[bushboy]

Try searching(rosewood?) .I don't know how to post a link.patm has a good link on there also.

[adb]

Most of the Dalbergia species are rather good in compression.  Tulipwood in particular is exceptional.
 Keep in mind the Rosewood bows Marc posted were I believe Santos Rosewood(at least some of them) Santos Rosewood is not actually  a Dalbergia.
 Better to compare species rather than names.

I have access to tulipwood as well, and my supplier said it was in the same family as rosewood. I knew about the santos rosewood being totally different. I believe the santos rosewood is much less dense.

I did a fair amount of research before I purchased this piece of wood, because I discovered some species were banned.

I also discovered 'Panamanian Rosewood' is a common name for a rosewood that has nothing to do with Panama, but actually grows on the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico, Belize, and down into Honduras.

[adb]

The one downside to this piece of rosewood was the cost. 3X more than ipe. It was $40 per board foot.

[Hamish]

I know some English bowyers have successfully used rosewoods as belly wood for longbows so in general it must be pretty good in compression. I wouldn't worry if the rosewood you want to use is on a CITES list, as some wood suppliers still have stock from before it was banned. Once it is sold they won't be getting any new stuff.
Indian rosewood is available from plantations, and therefore is supposedly sustainable.
Pernambuco -Brazilwood also makes a good bow(both archery and violin) but is banned now from export. If you can get access to ipe I'd be using it as it so a top wood and so much cheaper.
     Hamish

[adb]

I have good and easy access to quality and cheap ipe, but I get sick of using it all the time.

As far as using banned rosewood, all I can say is don't. Further research revealed the Gibson Guitar Company was fined $300,000US for using banned species of rosewood in 2011.

[DarkSoul]

Gibson was not fined for using, but for importing rosewood. That is a fundamental difference. Plant species (wood is a plant product) can be protected by the CITES convention. This lists species of plants, and thus wood species, that are protected by international law. Three appendices indicate the level of protection for a particular species. Only one rosewood species, Dalbergia nigra or Brazilian rosewood, is listed in appendix I. Several others, including all rosewood from Madagascar (which is the product that Gibson was fined for) and cocobolo, are listed in appendix II. That means you are legally allowed to buy the wood in your own country and use the wood for whatever purpose. But you are not allowed to bring wood from appendix II (and also appendix I of course) across the border. So you can't order Madagascar rosewood or cocobolo from any other country then your country of residence; importation is regulated but the use is not. However, there is an ethical debate whether you want to use a wood that is listed as vulnerable to extinction unless the importation is regulated.

I've not tried any species of rosewood for bows. I've seen one though, and have read about a few others. In my opinion it is decent in compression, but not as good as ipé. So it does not justify the factor three price difference, unless the wood is exceptionally beautiful. Many other woods are cheaper and better, but I agree that a piece of rosewood can be really stunning. I don't know about your piece, but I hope its appearance will make up for the high price.

[adb]

Gibson was not fined for using, but for importing rosewood. That is a fundamental difference. Plant species (wood is a plant product) can be protected by the CITES convention. This lists species of plants, and thus wood species, that are protected by international law. Three appendices indicate the level of protection for a particular species. Only one rosewood species, Dalbergia nigra or Brazilian rosewood, is listed in appendix I. Several others, including all rosewood from Madagascar (which is the product that Gibson was fined for) and cocobolo, are listed in appendix II. That means you are legally allowed to buy the wood in your own country and use the wood for whatever purpose. But you are not allowed to bring wood from appendix II (and also appendix I of course) across the border. So you can't order Madagascar rosewood or cocobolo from any other country then your country of residence; importation is regulated but the use is not. However, there is an ethical debate whether you want to use a wood that is listed as vulnerable to extinction unless the importation is regulated.

I've not tried any species of rosewood for bows. I've seen one though, and have read about a few others. In my opinion it is decent in compression, but not as good as ipé. So it does not justify the factor three price difference, unless the wood is exceptionally beautiful. Many other woods are cheaper and better, but I agree that a piece of rosewood can be really stunning. I don't know about your piece, but I hope its appearance will make up for the high price.

Thanks, DarkSoul... I knew all the details about the fines imposed on Gibson (and why) through a google search while I was researching this piece of wood. I didn't think it was necessary to post all the fine details, as I am more interested in this wood's properties as a bow wood after finding it was OK and not on the CITES hit list. All the CITES stuff I found was interesting however, and they certainly don't pull any punches when it comes to enforcing their guidelines. That's good, I guess, in that it protects endangered species.

I also realise the cost difference. But, like I said, I can get endless quantities of ipe, but I get sick of using the same wood all the time. I will not likely recover any cost from a wood costing 3X as much, but I'd still like to try it!

You said you've read about bows made from rosewood? Where?