80" White Elm Warbow Build-along

[Cameroo]

That's a nice one Mark.  Not sure if it's just the picture, but yours looks wider and thinner than mine.

I'm not positive about the wood.  I got it as part of a trade.  Funny you mention red and white elm, because I got one of each in the trade.  I'm pretty sure this big one was the white elm though... at least I think that's what I was told.  By the time I am done tillering this one, I think it will be over 50% sapwood.  I chased the two outer rings off before starting too, so it would have been even thicker if those rings hadn't been violated.

I think I'm calling it quits for the night.  I rounded off the top of my tiller shelf, made a heavier stringer, and did several tillering sessions.  It sure is nerve-racking bracing a heavy bow.

Snapped this picture after the last session on the tiller tree.  I can see now that the left limb needs some work - it's bending a bit too much shortly out the handle, and not enough in the outer 2/3rds.  The right limb looks like it's bending nicely, but needs a bit of even wood removal because it is a bit stiffer than the left.

Opinions?  (By the way, this is at about a 4" brace, and it is pulling 110 lbs @ around 21")

[WillS]

Looks really nice, apart from that potential hinge (which you've mentioned!)

How wide are the tips at the moment?  Might be time to narrow them if you haven't already?

[toomanyknots]

I agree about what you said about the left limb, I would scrape just the outer portion of the left limb. Looking good!

[adb]

That's looking very good, Cam. You have it  bending nicely in the middle, which is important early on. What are you planning to do for tip overlays?

I'm not 100% sure on the type of elm... whether it's red or white. I was told it's white elm by the wood supplier, but that doesn't mean much. That being said, I don't think it matters much.

[Cameroo]

Ya, most of the tillering has been in the middle of the bow so far, I had it pretty thick after roughing out the thickness taper.  The tips are still full width Will.  I have lots of wood to remove yet, so that spot that is bending too much will be fine once the rest of the limbs catch up.

Adam, I have some cow horn that I found out on the farm, but I haven't cut into them yet so I don't know for certain if they will work.  That's what I was hoping to use though.  If that doesn't pan out I might use antler, or just a horn overlay instead of full horn nocks.

After a good night's sleep, looking back on yesterdays events, I'm so glad that my little stringer mishap didn't put an end to this project. Onward!

[Del the cat]

I feel quite foolish posting this, but I figure if someone else can learn from my poor example, why not?

Lesson learned? Don't use cheap nylon cord for a stringer on a 110 lb bow.  I had my tiller string halfway in the groove for the bow's first brace, when the stringer snapped, causing the tiller string to pull a splinter off along the back.  Lucky for me it wasn't fatal.  Time to make an appropriate stringer I guess... 

The lesson is to glue on a temporary tip overlays for the early stages of tillering.
I learned this trick with Yew bows where the Yew sap wood is so soft.
It also means you have plenty of wood for when you want to put on horn nocks.
Del

[Cameroo]

Good idea Del.  Do you use CA glue to attach them?  I'd sure hate to have a glue joint fail under such high tension.

Didn't make as much progress today as I had hoped, but here's a little update.  It is now pulling 110 @ 24, 5.5" brace.  I'm a little concerned about the tip alignment again.  Most of the reflex I heated in seems to have pulled out, and some of the alignment correction seems to have reverted back as well.  The string is barely tracking across the handle now.  I started reducing the width of the tips today, removing wood from only the side that the string is leaning towards, in the hopes of bringing it back toward center.  That helped a bit but not much.

The limbs are pretty even now, but the tiller is quite elliptical yet.  Got to get those tips coming around more now.

[Marc St Louis]

When you have really elastic wood it keeps some of the reflex even after you have finished tillering the bow. 

A trick I use sometimes to correct string alignment, you need a solid vise and a T stick for this, is to brace the bow and set it up on the T stick at a few inches of draw.  Then firmly clamp the bow in  the vise  and pry the offending tips sideways in whichever direction it needs to go..  Stressing the limbs with the T stick and then prying the tips over seems to set the wood.  Of course you want to be extra careful when doing this

[mikekeswick]

Del wrap those tempory nocks with serving thread or similar. Use the same knot to finish the whipping as you would for a string serving and then soak with superglue. They will not move then! This is how I do all my nocks for tillering as I like to have plenty of wood to play with when it comes to doing the actual nocks.

[Del the cat]

Del wrap those tempory nocks with serving thread or similar. Use the same knot to finish the whipping as you would for a string serving and then soak with superglue. They will not move then! This is how I do all my nocks for tillering as I like to have plenty of wood to play with when it comes to doing the actual nocks.

I've never had one shift, just with superglue. Mind I've only used 'em up to 130# 
@ Cameroo.
Using high viscosity CA and a good rubber strapping while it cures. Mind I leave the tips fairly wide early on, so there is a good big glue area.
Del

[mikekeswick]

Better safe than sorry was what I was meaning. Also if you wrap them you don't need to mess about getting a perfect glueline for overlays.

[lostarrow]

   Looking good!
  Quick couple of questions:
           What program are you using to overlay the elipse on the picture?
            If you changed the elipse to a large diameter circle , would it not give you a totally different outlook on the bow?I'm just wondering if you are doing yourself an injustice by skewing your perspective with the program. I can see how it can be a great tool  for symmetry  though.

[Cameroo]

There are lots of software options to do that sort of thing, but I find Photoshop to be the easiest for me.  Not sure if you are familiar with it, but I just use the shape tool to draw a rough ellipse, and then use the Transform command (CTRL + T) to stretch it and move it around to match the bow.  It only takes a few seconds to do.

I also bought a copy of Adobe Lightroom, since I have recently become a DSLR photography enthusiast.  I just learned the other day that I can shoot video with my camera while exercising the bow, import it into Lightroom, and then export any single frame from the video as a picture that I can later edit (there is probably free software out there that will do the same thing). Needless to say, this comes in handy when trying to capture a full draw picture, as I don't have to hold the bow while I wait for the camera to do it's thing.  Watching the video back on repeat helps me judge the tiller as well, since I can really focus on the bow, instead of worrying about the draw length and weight that I am pulling the rope to.  When I make bows, I have all the time in the world.  Some people will scoff at the idea of what I do, but if I figure that if spending a little of my downtime analysing pictures can help make the difference between a good bow, and great bow, then it's time well spent.

The shape you see has nothing to do with the intended final tiller - at this point I am using it strictly for judging if there are any stiff spots, as well as symmetry, as you mentioned.  Some people can do this strictly by eye.  Although I do trust my eye, sometimes it's nice to have a second opinion   

In the case of this bow, I hope to leave the handle area just slightly stiffer than a full-compass tiller, just to reduce the handshock a bit.  So to compare it to a circle would not quite be what I am after.  As the tiller progresses, you will see the shape come closer to circular, but it won't quite get there (hopefully!  I will likely have to leave that area alone now for the rest of the tillering process).

Now, a question for the warbow gurus on here - I probably won't get to work on the bow much until the weekend.  Looking at that last snapshot, I'm thinking that I should be working around the area about 2/3rds of the way out from the handle, and leave the very tips until they start coming around more?  Then when it comes time to soften up the tips more, I will probably try to tiller them a bit from the side again to hopefully help bring the string back over the handle as much as possible.  Am I on the right track?

Mark, when I get back to tillering I will try your suggestion and give the limbs a gentle nudge in the right direction. How far would you suggest pulling the string back, 10 inches or so?

Thanks everyone for all of the feedback so far.  As much as I normally like to have projects planned out before even starting them, I am definitely learning some things on-the-fly, and it's nice to have some experienced eyes watching over me on my first "heavy" self bow.

[Marc St Louis]

I use my camera for tillering after I reach 20" of draw by using the timer function and then transferring the image it to my shop PC, before 20" I use a T stick.  Then I use an old copy of MS photo editor to edit the picture and rotate it around so I can see the bow from different angles.

I  would soften the outer left limb a bit but leave the right alone.  I would also work the handle area, but that's just me.

10" should be enough.  You may have a hard time with the bow turning in the vise though.  Try it and if it's too hard then just use dry heat, unbraced of course, on the outside of the sideways bend so that the wood is being compressed rather than stretched

[Cameroo]

Got a little farther along today, right now it's at about 120 lbs @ 28.5".  I say "about" since the scale only goes to 110, but I'm pulling the needle another 10 lb increment past that.

It's getting real close now.