Medieval English Longbows and the 5/8 rule

[VicNova]

So i am building a bow with a rounded belly, but I am making it 1.5" wide and .75" thick. This bow can not be called a real Victorian style English longbow correct? But can it still be called a true longbow?

In medieval times, were all the longbows the English used conforming to this rule, or did they have bows that were wider than they were thick so as to make the belly a shallower D instead of the deep arched D shape?

When using Elm or Ash for their bows instead of yew, wouldn't they be doing something like that?

If I just want to build an English Longbow up to 50# using the 5/8 rule with white woods, will i have trouble with chrys. and fretting on the rounded belly?

[brian]

Come on WILLS we want the definitive awnswer

[Del the cat]

The 5/8 rule is no problem at all, it gives a reasonable amount of leeway. Anything built to exactly 5/8 would look more like an American Longbow.
I recenty built an ELM 100# longbow, wider in the belly than back, heat treated to avoid chrysals, it looked like a longbow, shot like a longbow and was well inside the 5/8 rule. Just made a stick ELB (70#) that's well in 5/8 too despite being rather flat bellied.
Del

[WillS]

Come on WILLS we want the definitive awnswer

.....? I'm sorry, what?

[Yeomanbowman]

The 5/8 rule is no problem at all, it gives a reasonable amount of leeway. Anything built to exactly 5/8 would look more like an American Longbow.
I recenty built an ELM 100# longbow, wider in the belly than back, heat treated to avoid chrysals, it looked like a longbow, shot like a longbow and was well inside the 5/8 rule. Just made a stick ELB (70#) that's well in 5/8 too despite being rather flat bellied.
Del

Hi Del

I agree that you can make a heavy bow inside the 5/8ths.  What I have found is that sometimes there is a point 1/2 way down the limb that is near the limit with white woods.  This where the bow is the still the full width but the depth has reduced, rather than all over the bow as you suggest.   
However, the 5/8ths width/depth ration is the BL-BS' definition for a Victorian butt bow and even many of those are on the shooting line are close to the limit.  Some of the fastest on the line are flatter/wider bows made with bamboo backs.

Jeremy

[Del the cat]

Ah, the post is about Medieval English Longbow, which IMO rules out Victorian and bamboo... but...
Well, yes, if you want maximum speed you'll prob go to as close to 5/8 as you can get away with and bamboo backed*... or build something other than a longbow.
That's exactly the problem with rules, people always want to push them to the limit to gain some advantage... what on earth a 5/8 bow with a bamboo back has to do with a 'real' longbow is anyone's guess???.... but it depends on the individuals idea of what constitutes a longbow.
That's one reason why I tend to shun societies and competion, they so often degenerate into politics or gamesmanship, neither of which are my bag.
Personally I've not seen many longbows that were pushing the limit, but then I only shoot field and the odd roving marks. Maybe on the target shooting line there are some.
I'd rather just plough my own furrow.
Personally I think the 5/8 is more than generous for a longbow, I don't think I've ever been in danger of going flatter in a longbow.
Bottom line is I make bows and I don't give a tinker's cuss what they get classed as! There is one bonkers society that would try to tell me that my old 70# self Yew isn't a longbow 'cos it doesn't have horn nocks ... do I care? Nah...
Del
*In fact I built a longbow close to 5/8 boo backed Yew, requested for a friend of mine ... fast as hell. but by no means lime a 'medieval' longbow.
He wanted it 26" draw, but I only had a skinny bit of Oregon Yew left for the belly, so It was only marginally heavier/faster than his current bow. Thus he didn't want it and I kept it for myself... he was getting about 190 yards with his short draw, I pulled my regular arrows to 28" and they almost went out the field (240yards! ) look on his face was priceless! I'd love to see how far it would chuck a flight arrow.

[Thesquirrelslinger]

My idea of a Medieval English Warbow- something I can't full draw, over 75" long, and with a rounded belly
The 5/8ths rule is to keep people from making high weight, flat, fairly short bows and calling them longbows.

[Wooden Spring]

From what bit of research I've done on "English Warbows" versus "Victorian American Longbows," it seems as though most 19th century American Target Longbows' thickness was around 65% of the width, whereas the "English Warbows" were between 80-90%. Is that a fair assessment?

Something like this........  OK, I know this isn't exactly "Mary Rose" but the numbers are close anyway... I drew this with 19th century American Target bows in mind.

[Yeomanbowman]

My idea of a Medieval English Warbow- something I can't full draw, over 75" long, and with a rounded belly
The 5/8ths rule is to keep people from making high weight, flat, fairly short bows and calling them longbows.

How do you do the above with a bow that shoots without a reduced handle section like an AFB and has to paradox around the handle (being the widest point)?
If it were possible to make high weight, flat, fairly short bows that shot faster and were as safe and easy to make as a 'longbow in the 5/8th' would a medieval bowyer not do so?

The key is not to confuse yew bows with woods far less elastic.  Medieval bowyers had no concept of a 5/8ths rule only what made a fast, safe and easy to manufacture bow in the materials that were to hand.  The BLBS do care about the 5/8ths rule as they shoot bows based upon Victorian butt bows.  However, even they would not accept some Victorian bows as some were recurved - but that's another can of worms

 

[Yeomanbowman]

This how you make a wide limbed heavy selfbow.  It's 130lbs @32".  I'll bet it was slower to make than a longbow.
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/58841/130-elm-flatbow
Notice the narrow handle section.  If anyone would like to show me a bow that has limbs AND a working handle this wide I'll be very impressed!
Fancy a challenge anyone?

Getting back to the original question, it is best not to worry about making a Victorian style selfbow but keep the belly flatter/flat for white woods.  Yew can be made narrow and crowned - elm cannot.