Did English archers shoot over the knuckle or over the thumb?

[Atlatlista]

I think this discusion raises the issue of variation

It's a natural thing and over the course of Medieval and Renaissance archery (hundreds of years) the one thing we should know for sure is, there was variation by the bucket load!

The one thing unfortunate about the "Mary Rose" finds is that we tend to use them to base most of our opinions on the subject.

Conformity was the one thing missing over this period, that is evident from the "Mary Rose" finds themselves such as different bow lengths, strength's and profiles. Different arrow lengths, woods and profiles even in the same sheaves!

I tried shooting off the thumb myself and found it strange but possible.

I suppose the main reason for arguments on this forum has been our dogged insistence on how we think things were done.

Yup.  Viewing the past as monolithic is one of the huge problems of archaeology and history.

[Joec123able]

My guess is some shot off the thumb some off the index who knows that seems more reasonable to me

[WillS]

My guess is some shot off the thumb some off the index who knows that seems more reasonable to me

But if all threads were responded to in this way... there would be no forums!

The whole point of healthy discussion is to have a healthy discussion.  Nobody knows, we can only speculate and give opinions based on some facts that somebody else has worked out.  From these speculations, questions are either answered or not answered.  Opinions are ignored or taken into consideration and the original question either ends up being solved to the asker's satisfaction, or more thought is required. 

There's no point in

"so, did ancient archers use broadheads or bodkins?"

"They might have used both.  Next question!"

Where's the fun in that?   

[Archeress]

ok...here is something that is confusing me...and yes i am easily confused. 

an arrow shot off the right hand knuckle would (due to archers paradox) bend outwards to clear the bow  ???yes ??

Sooooooo..if an arrow from the same archer shot off the thumb instead..would the arrow flex the same way?.  i.e.  outward to the right ?    If so then would not the arrow  deflect off the left hand side of the bow ?. 

orrrrr  would the arrow naturally flex outwards to the left thereby clearing the bow....if so the why would it do this ?. 

[WillS]

If the string was exactly central, and the release was almost mechanically clean with no twist or bias to one side caused by the fingers, the arrow would be pushed out, away from the bow regardless what side it was on.  Trouble is, a right handed archer will always twist the string clockwise at release, which works fine for the arrow resting on the knuckle but not the thumb. 

A left handed archer faces the identical issue, as they twist the string anticlockwise but the arrow is on the right of the bow, still over the knuckle so it's not a problem.

If the right handed archer shot off the thumb (and wasn't a freak like TMK..) but released the same way, it's probably gonna cause the arrow to fly off as the string twisted, but if it didn't and everything stayed where it was, the arrow would likely behave as a mirror image to one shot off the knuckle.  It would point off to the right to start with, the string would force the tail forward and the arrow would bend round the bow, just like the knuckle-shot one.

[Del the cat]

The real issue is how the string slips off the fingers once they start to open.
The string will deflect left from the fingers of the right hand and to the right from the fingers of the left hand.
If you imagine the fingers of the right hand as a plate hinged along it's right edge, as the left edge (finger tips) starts to move towards the bow the string will be trying to slip off. With a flat plate this will happen once the plate has moved a few degrees, obviously with soft fingers and maybe a tab the string will bite int an bit, but it will still pull free early, say when the plate/fingers are at 45 degrees, this gives the deflection.
This is the big effect that those idiot target archers with centre shot bows confuse for 'Archers Pardox' when it is nothing to do with it.

So, a right hamded archer deflects the string (and thus the nock of the arrow) to the left, this tends to pivot or buckle the arrow about it's centre forcing the front end to the right against the bow, stopping it leaping off the hand...
Del

[warrior kiwi]

For what its worth, I as a kid also used the over-thumb technique with my sapling bows and being a left hander, sometimes used my friends right hand recurve bows as the shelf was in the position I was used to, and the technique became quite accurate with practise. however since practising at a club I shoot now using the knuckle (and I have also changed to shoot right-handed as I am right-eye dominant).