The difference between drying wood and seasoning it.

[PatM]

The old time flight shooters that used to routinely shoot well over 400 yards and pushed the record out to 500 plus insisted that their wood be seasoned for years.
 In these days of quick drying nobody has come close to those records despite all sorts of science helping them.
 The funny thing is that people select wood based on perceived density  and seasoned wood invariably has an edge in that department.
 Jawge, that just proves that you peaked as a bowyer 13 years ago.

[bow101]

Gordon, I'm working on it as we speak. A few that I have in the corner are getting older by the day! and I may not get to them this year as well

Carson and Iconicmuffin; Liked your input. Great way to look at it. 

Additional proof is some wood that I got off a building dismantle. I had the salvage rights and made a barn out of some of the 50 year old timbers and 2x12s  They were all old growth rough sawn Doug fir over fifty years old.  The wood was in excellent shape because no excess moisture had got to the rafters  for the whole time.  We all know Doug fir is fairly soft and even if kiln dried it is easy to drive a nail through.  This stuff was so hard when we built our barn that you would think you were driving the nail in concrete. It would even break screws occasionally.  The wood after fifty years "seasoning" was not inferior, and did not want to split out when nailed,yet had become very hard.

Another line of thought: If it is real old wood, Can you rehydrate and regain the same elasticity as before?  And if so what does it say on the molecular level

I can tell you that I have worked with thousands upon thousands of board feet of D-Fir. Like I mentioned in the previous post when Evergreen's get old they get hard and brittle. Have a look at some old houses, they were built with real wood in those days, you cannot even remove nails the heads just break off same with screws.

As far as rehydrating and regain the same elasticity...............I would say No.!!
Why..? The molecular structure of the wood fiber has changed after 50 years.

[PatM]

No matter how long you soak a raisin or a piece of beef jerky, you'll never turn them back into a grape or a steak.

[George Tsoukalas]

PatM, that's for sure. I think I peaked before I started. Jawge

[Carson (CMB)]

Hey Carson thank you! I'm beginning to think that maybe long seasoned wood is really better 

Gordon, I knew you would come around

[sleek]

Holy carp! I last checked this thread at around 9 am, went to bed ( I work nights ) woke up and now its on page 7! Do I get an award for fastest growing thread? Didnt realize I had a can of worms when I opened it.... there should be a sticky thread with a list of all the can of worms thread topics that should not be discussed and a link to each thread that did for an example as to why... LOL.

That being said, harmonics seems to be the best way to answer this question, as that is the usage of energy that can be measured precisely. So, either make a bow of year old wood, ( never shoot it ) string it, and listen to what key it rings in at what moisture content, then do it again every year, measuring the difference. You could also make a musical instrument ( maybe even a wind instrument ) and see how its tone changes over time. The key here is to make sure the MC doesnt change.

[Carson (CMB)]

Got anything with my name on it Carson ol' buddy? WOW your lucky Gordon, I know you will make a fantastic bow with those billets.

Funny you should ask that Pearl.  This vine maple had your name on it since the day I cut it    I know how you can handle some reflex 

[Keenan]

 Carson I have the twin to that stave but it is on the line for a coat of finish now. You'll get to see it soon. Started with about 7 inches of reflex and kept most of it ::)LOL

[spyder1958]

I'm sure most have heard of (The field of cryogenics) and any good engine builder would much prefer a well seasoned engine block to use in the rebuild. Same principle I think applies to wood at the molecular level.  I'll paste this bit of info from a article i read.

(They originally experimented with the possibility of increasing the life of metal tools to anywhere between 200%-400% of the original life expectancy using cryogenic tempering instead of heat treating. This evolved in the late 1990s into the treatment of other parts (that did more than just increase the life of a product) such as amplifier valves (improved sound quality), baseball bats (greater sweet spot), golf clubs (greater sweet spot), racing engines (greater performance under stress), firearms (less warping after continuous shooting), knives, razor blades, brake rotors and even pantyhose)

I'm sure with a little research we could find plenty to back up a well seasoned stave is better. As the molecule's have aligned and balanced.
Keenan I've also experienced the properties of well seasoned old (over 100 year) timber and have some from and old house. I know its some form of pine and the new wood from later additions was total destroyed by termites but not the old wood, they didn't touch it. Maybe I should try a bow from it.

[RyanY]

Wow this thread exploded. If there is a reason why well seasoned staves are better then it needs to be defined. Is it workability or in the finished product as a bow? Do bows from well seasoned staves shoot faster? If so then that means they store more energy per mass than less seasoned wood. At what point would seasoning no longer give an advantage and at what point do we start to see an advantage? There are so many factors that it would almost be impossible to test. Great bows have been made from both quick dried and seasoned staves and any difference is trivial and left to the opinion of the bowyer. Would be cool to know what happens to wood while being seasoned though.

[Roy]

I think I get it now.                   
                       
                                 
                                   
                                 
                                 
                                 
                             
Ah crap now I forgot what we was talken about.

[Gordon]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the science of seasoning wood and then some:

http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-155.pdf

[Roy]

I gotta wonder how the Indians kilt all them Buffalos and white men with stick bows when they had no college eduamacation:)

[Holten101]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the science of seasoning wood and then some:

http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-155.pdf

Well.....in that paper "seasoning = drying", so I didn't find any answers in there (maybe I should read it in deepth, and not just skim it;-) . Awsome work none the less.

As to the subject I still hold the opinion that dry is dry, is dry. I haven't noticed any difference in dry wood and seasoned wood (2-4 yrs) (speaking exclusively wych elm here). I like many others in this thread, need confirmation (either my "science", testing or experience).

The only thing that rocks my confidence is heat treating....I cant explain that either, but it works. I cant exclude that seasoning works, so ill try and stay open minded.

Cheers

[sleek]

Makes me wonder if heat treating is like a rapid seasoning? Have any of you " I want seasoned wood over dry "guys noticed a similarity between heat treaded younger wood and non heat treated seasoned wood? And to look at it from another angle, does heat treating already well seasoned wood make a difference on the properties of the wood?
 Seasoned wood turnes darker, heat treated wood turnes darker. Both seem to have the same properties all the pro seasoning folks mention. Wood oxadizes when its burnt, and I assume bassed on the color change of osage, that it oxadizes as it sits and ages. so, whats the difference?