Warbow Shooting off 400foot cliff...New HHB Warbow

[Agincourtwarbow]

Thanks Scowler! The band is Puscifer and the song 'The Humbling River'.
Cheers,
-Jake

[Scowler]

Thanks!

[mikekeswick]

Are you sure that there is nobody down there?? Looks like there are plenty of trees to me...
All that extra movement during drawing does NOT help arrow speed/distance - how can it? You would need to be running forward just prior to the loose to get any extra distance. Just because others do something does not mean it's right....look at the physics

[Agincourtwarbow]

Are you sure that there is nobody down there?? Looks like there are plenty of trees to me...
All that extra movement during drawing does NOT help arrow speed/distance - how can it? You would need to be running forward just prior to the loose to get any extra distance. Just because others do something does not mean it's right....look at the physics

I think we have had a conversation like this before as well mikekeswick, would you mind sharing your personal achievements? I am not full on agreeing or disagreeing but with respect those that bash and preach against are usually ones who can not match these achievements. Have you ever come close to a 325 yards with standard or a livery shot of 274 yards? These were achieved by a guy who does do the rolling loose.....doesn't look like its hurting him all that much...

Yes I stand behind my comment that there were no people down there, this is no provincial park, it is indeed bush.
Cheers,

[mikekeswick]

Ok!
Get yourself an accurate (electronic makes it easier to see) scale and hook up your bow.
Draw it once quickly and note the reading at full draw.
Draw it again trying to replicate the hold times with your preferred method of shooting and note the reading.
They will be different.
Even if you forget the other pros/cons of your preferred shooting style the difference in weight will make a difference to how far/fast your arrows will fly. Am I right or wrong?!
Wether or not I have got distances of 274 or 325 yd with a heavy bow is irrelevant - the laws of physics are still the laws of physics!! Holding a flight (or any) bow at full draw is not going to help with the distance achieved!

To my credit i've made a few decent flight bows (I would like to think) but have never really been interested in making heavy bows or shooting them. I normally only shoot when i'm too tired to climb these days anyway so heaving a heavy bow back isn't happening...because i'm resting
Regarding the 'fall zone' just saying that it isn't a park doesn't mean there is nobody down there. Heck shoot where you want it makes no difference to me but not everybody stays in parks....

[Agincourtwarbow]

Look mate I'm not bashing you, physics may be physics I understand the value of science, but results mean more to me, it means they are doing something right. You may have noticed I shoot both, when I do the rolling loose my arrows do not fly LESS of a distance....so one concludes it's not worth preaching about. From my experiences, certainly on forums such as this I'm sorry to say, those that can't do (for whatever reason is irrelevant to me) preach. Looking back through the history on this topic thread, I believe I have seen you and others bring this matter up commonly...must be a soft spot?
They all seem to end the same, I note.
In my own experience of actually shooting the English Warbow in different styles has shown me that shooting static does not get my arrow further than a rolling loose, so why care if someone tells me the equations if it doesn't matter? I like the rolling loose it enables me to feel each muscle group work in a good order, lets me know I am using the right muscles. Many of me warbow mates shoot both, both styles get great distances, and no one bashes the others.
As for shooting location I understand your concern as it is a weapon, but out of curiosity how much time have you spent in northern Ontario  there was no one, can't be more sure than 100 percant.
You would also be surprised how sound can carry there have been years where I could hear dear in the underbrush.
Cheers,

[Cameroo]

Thanks for getting that song stuck in my head for the last 4 days    I love Tool and APC, but never really listened to Puscifer because the little bit I had heard was a little too techno for my taste.  I didn't know they had any songs like that, so thanks for re-introducing me to them

Sweet video by the way!

[Agincourtwarbow]

Hey thanks Cameroo! Totally agree mate, not fussy on that techno stuff myself, but aye that one be an ear-worm, and finally gave me the opportunity to make a slow 'video'.
Cheers mate,
-Jake

[fishfinder401]

meant to reply earlier, but ive been a little busy with moving int college, but i have to say, this was a great video, and my 2 cents on the whole rolling loose argument, as far as saying that because of the very slight drop in weight when holding it back a second longer that it shouldn't shoot as far because of the physics involved, it may seem that way on the surface, but think of it this way, if that shooting style is more comfortable to use, your release will be much smoother, meaning less wobble of the arrow and less kinetic energy being taken out by friction trying to steady the arrow in flight which explains why it works just as well, also from ymown personal experience, using a rolling loose helps manage heavier weight bows, for instance i could stand still and pull a 70-80lb warbow straight and release without any problems, but try doing that with a 140-150lb warbow and getting a good release..... its not easy so i guess you could say that using a rolling loose for a majority of people might even provide the possibility of a longer shot because of the cleaner release and better flight............... although i do admit, if you were referring to normal weight bows( well normal for most people ) the factor of needing a different stance to successfully and cleanly release and arrow because of heavy weight, wouldn't  contribute, so in reference to a majority of bows, mikekeswick is right, but not completely right on the factors with a warbow,which can only be really understood after shooting one allot, by the way, i don't always know how things come across to people, so let me just say that i don't mean for this to seem like i was going after mikekeswick saying he doesn't know what he was saying, because what he said was valid, he was just in my opinion missing a small but integral part of it
-this is coming from someone who does know physics very well and also has shot heavy bows( also has shot alongside jake )
noel

[adb]

Rolling loose, static loose... to each his own. Personally, I use a static loose. It is my opinion that a rolling loose leaves the bow at full draw for a longer period of time, which I don't like. I've never done any comparison testing for distance, but Jake is correct, the EWBS record holders mostly use a rolling loose. There must be something to it. I know a rolling loose gets me 'into' the bow more before I loose.

[peasant1381]

The bow is not actually held at full draw during a rolling loose. The arrow is drawn throughout the draw and is only at full draw just before the arrow is loosed. And there is an equation to explain how it works - inertia x mass x force = distance

[adb]

Inertia is the resistance of any object to change it's state of motion or rest. In other words, the tendancy of an object to resist changes in motion.
Inertia is affected and determined by mass, force, and (in the case of an arrow), air resistance. Not inertia X mass X force.

[peasant1381]

But if the mass is in motion and the velocity of the arrow is resistant to drag and the force overcomes the inertia then the arrow will fly further.

[adb]

The arrow in motion can never be resistant to drag. Unless it's shot in a vaccum. Force will overcome inertia. Force is a component of overcoming inertia. As soon as the arrow is released, and the force propelling it forward overcomes the inertia of the arrow at rest, it begins to slow.

The force is determined by the length of time that the string acts on the arrow, and the energy stored in the string, which is transfered to it by the limbs.
The distance the arrow will travel is determined by: the force applied to it, it's weight (or more correctly it's mass), gravity, and air resistance.

You're on the right track. It's simple physics, involving bodies at rest and in motion (inertia), and the physics of bodies in motion once they overcome inertia.

[outcaste]

For those who are unfamiliar with the 'rolling loose':

http://www.englishwarbowsociety.com/EWBS_Gallery_EN.html

I understand this is exemplar. It is particularly good at illustrating all phases of this technique.