Making first bow

[Matt B]

Hi there, I'm new here and new to bow making, or archery for that matter. I'm looking for a little advice.

First off, this is where I am at: I've started a red oak long bow, it is 72" long. I've been working on it for a couple months and finally just got a scale the other day. I checked it and it seems it is only 36# @ 28" I was hoping to get around 45#. So I will most likely cut an inch off each end. Does anybody have a clue what that will bring the draw weight close to? does it increase by a few pounds or by 10 or so?

Another thing I'm a little confused about is that I was told my draw length is from where the arrow would nock out to the 'back' of the bow (which happens to be 28" for me), but when I check the draw weight in the tillering stick, I pull it back to 28" on the stick to get my weight. But because the tillering sticks measurements would be from the belly of the bow, wouldn't that throw it off by however thick the bow is? Also, if I plan on putting a handle on it, would that not make the bow even further away from me at full draw? (I hope this makes sense, I'm trying best to put my random thoughts into comprehensible sentences  )

So when I retiller my bow after shortening it to 70" (or should I go more?) I heard it was a good idea to take about a month and send a few arrows through it before putting the finish on, just make make sure it's holding up well enough. So my question about that is about the arrows... Which arrows should I use? Keep in mind I have no knowledge of archery but from what I've read, and the couple times I shot a bow over 10 years ago in high school. I found these: http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4054X which are test arrows, so I get 6 or 8 but they are couples at different weights, which I figure would be good for boy making considering I will need to test different weighted bows. I don't think these come with tips, so what tip should I get? do any tips fit on any arrows? are they easy to put on? I would prefer something that has the look of middle ages or prior. But if for something like this I should just get a plain tip, thats no problem, I can always get those other tips for when I finish my bow(s)

EDIT: p.s. I was attempting to make a traditional longbow, but I believe I have made it a lot flatter then it should be, I will measure it right now, DONE! my caliper seems to tell me that the thickness of the handle is only 11/16", while about halfway up one limb is 1/2" and finally, the width of the bow is 1 and 5/16" The width is pretty much the same up til about maybe a little over 12" from the tip (thats where I started the taper). I hope those measurements are so bad that I totally ruined my bow. Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated.

Well I think thats all for now, I'm sure I will have more questions, sorry about all the rambling

[AJMag]

First off, congrats on taking the lunge forward. As for your bow, I'd leave it as is and start another one, if you've already tillered to draw length.

As for the draw length. Measuring is easier to the curve of your palm as if you were holding the bow, then add 1.75". So when you make your tillering stick, start the measuring from 1.75" at the point where the bow sits on the stick.

The test kit works fine for a first set. You want to get the same size tips as the diameter of the shafts. In that case, generally 11/32. When I bought the kit, they also courteously included two  5/16" tips for the smallest weight arrows. Also, don't forget about a taper tool and heat glue, if you're using field tips anyways.

Hope it helps, Good luck!

[Matt B]

First off, congrats on taking the lunge forward. As for your bow, I'd leave it as is and start another one, if you've already tillered to draw length.

As for the draw length. Measuring is easier to the curve of your palm as if you were holding the bow, then add 1.75". So when you make your tillering stick, start the measuring from 1.75" at the point where the bow sits on the stick.

The test kit works fine for a first set. You want to get the same size tips as the diameter of the shafts. In that case, generally 11/32. When I bought the kit, they also courteously included two  5/16" tips for the smallest weight arrows. Also, don't forget about a taper tool and heat glue, if you're using field tips anyways.

Hope it helps, Good luck!

Thank you very much, It's extremely fun

So I have my tillering stick measured from where the belly would sit, so your saying when i check the draw length/weight, I should only be pulling it down to 26.25"?

Oh, and something I just remembered, which is the main reason I decided to shorten it is when I checked it yesterday, the top limb was quite a bit weaker then the top, I may have weakened the bow by storing it on one end. but I thing six inches from the center of top compared to top ended up being over an 1/8" off, and when i checked all the way to the end, the last 6 inches from the tip, top limb compared to bottom limb, i think it was over a quarter of an inch off... I was told to make the bottom a bit stronger, but that seems like to much difference or is it fine? (thats the main reason i decided to shorten, because I need to retiller the bottom limb anyways which will reduce draw weight even more.)

Or do you suggest I fire a few arrows and see how accurate it is before I decide that the one limb is to strong? (and what would give me clues about shooting that would tell me the bottom limb is too strong? arrows go to high?)

and yes, that does help thank you, I will order those arrows today or tomorrow.

[tattoo dave]

So I think I read some where that piking a bow will cause a 2-3 pound increase per inch you remove. I could be wrong though. But you have to consider that if you make it shorter, it's gonna create more stress on the limbs, and if the tiller is not good to start, it may just cause even more problems. Just a thought. Give it a try though, if it fails call it a learning stick. Don't give up! You can always make more. Thats kinda the fun of part. Good luck.

Tattoo Dave

[lesken2011]

I have a formula I picked up somewhere for estimating the effect of piking. If I remember correctly, it is based on overall length of the bow and current weight. I used it once and it was pretty accurate. I would try to find it for you, but If I were you, I would start with an inch on each end and see how that affects it. You have enough length for that. If you are going to keep your weight at 45# and under 68 to 70 in. should be no problem.

[RobWiden]

    I saw a formula for figuring out how much to pike a bow in Traditional Bowyer's Bible Vol. 1. I think it was in the design and performance chapter. Easy to use if you have a calculator rather than my mental arithmetic.

[Pappy]

Piking it will as a general rule pick up a couple of pounds per inch,that being said
the 1/8 difference is fine ,I usually make mine from 1/8 to 3/16 heavy on the bottom limb. On the draw length,My board is set up from the belly side of the handle so handle thickness makes no difference, some try and over think that,I guess you need to be close but it's not that critical .I get the tiller looking good and shoot it,work on the weight till it feels good to me then measure and weigh   so I can write the draw and weight on the bow. It ant rocket science and if you try and over think it,especially just starting out it will drive you crazy.Remember it's a piece of wood not lambs and glass so sometimes things don't turn out just prefect as far as measurements go. Get the limbs bending as even as you can and shoot it. I never wait a month to finish one,I do put a 100 or so arrows through it and re check everything and if all is good finish it up.Good luck and keep us updated. 
   Pappy

[Weylin]

I'd say the general rule is to measure from the back of the bow so if your tillering stick is measuring from the belly you'll have to adjust the measurement. So given that it does sound like you are pulling it short on the stick. That will give to a little weight by going out to 28". BUT, if your tiller is off, which it sounds like it might be, then you shouldn't pull it any farther. You should fix the tiller first. Think of it this way. The main reason that people want higher draw weight is to get faster arrow speed. but draw weight is only one factor in determining arrow speed. A poorly tillered bow might have a high draw weight but it wont be transffering that weight into the arrow very efficiently thus it will likely have a slower arrow speed than a well tillered, lighter weight bow. Not to mention having a shorter life span, possible handshock or erratic arrow flight. So I guess my point is tiller is more important than draw weight. Especially on your first bow. This is your opportunity to learn to tiller a bow well and you can always take that knowledge and make a heavier next time.

If you're able to some pictures of your bow at rest, braced and drawn then we could give you a lot more specific advice. Good luck and have fun! 

[Matt B]

    I saw a formula for figuring out how much to pike a bow in Traditional Bowyer's Bible Vol. 1. I think it was in the design and performance chapter. Easy to use if you have a calculator rather than my mental arithmetic.

Nice, considering I just started reading it, and I'm about halfway through that chapter, I should be close.

I have a few days before I will be getting any more work done on it so I will have to decide if I'm going to leave it or pike it.

And I just ordered that arrow test kit, so as soon as those arrive, I'll be able to start sending some arrows through it. I actually went a little overboard and spend an hour browsing 3 rivers and buying stuff, other then the arrows/points taper tool and glue, I ended up withsome more colours of B-50, some string nocks, some serving(currently I'm using dental floss), a flemish string jig that I'm going to have to learn how to use, 4 in 1 rasp, and I think thats about it.

I already have the tillering stick/string, spokeshave(which I shaped my entire bow with), nock file, sandpaper (80, 120, 220 and 400 grit) minwax polyurethane finish, scale, string wax, arm guard and tab.

Sound like I'm missing anything at all? or should that be suffice to continue the bowyers craft for a while? Other then of course some staves I've got a couple sitting in my room ready to begin when I finish my first.

It ant rocket science and if you try and over think it,especially just starting out it will drive you crazy.Remember it's a piece of wood not lambs and glass so sometimes things don't turn out just prefect as far as measurements go.

Yeah, I think thats the biggest problem, I can be a bit of a perfectionist sometimes, that will probably be my biggest enemy in the world of bow making.

If you're able to some pictures of your bow at rest, braced and drawn then we could give you a lot more specific advice. Good luck and have fun! 

That shouldn't be a problem, probably get those up on the weekend.

Thanks for all the good luck everyone, I will have fun  and as long as you stay interested I'll keep you updated 

[occupant]

I have made more than a few bows, even if I dont post much. My advice would be to learn good sound techniques. All the tools in the world wont help much otherwise. I'm not trying to offend here, but think of what was available to bowers hundred or thousands of years ago and what they accomplished.

[Matt B]

I have made more than a few bows, even if I dont post much. My advice would be to learn good sound techniques. All the tools in the world wont help much otherwise. I'm not trying to offend here, but think of what was available to bowers hundred or thousands of years ago and what they accomplished.

None taken, and yes, you are right, I was just getting a little anxious waiting for the arrows. Felt I needed to post something. I plan on making a few longbows of cheap red oak board. Until I get fairly comfortable in what I am doing. I'm sure by that point, it will be fairly obvious what will help me out in the future.

Anyways, I've taken some pics, the unstrung one might be a little to angled on the belly side, if so let me know, I'll take another.

[ionicmuffin]

that tiller looks good here! nice job